I'm a bit new to being 70, but heres the thing. up till now i have done a 49/12/0 build for... well just about everything. Did good dmg and whatnot. I had a crap load of mana (1001 unbuffed) for it and everything was fun and fine. But then I was told that i just dont do enough dmg... which I thought was insane. Now, i have decided that i probably should respec but to what? I do little amounts of Pvp, with large amounts of Dailies and dungons and whatnot. My gear is alright I think and i would like to start to pvp more (dude... the epics for pvp are just wicked...) but i still want to dungon and do my dailies.
Should I just be respecing all the time depending on what im doing (Pvp/PvE) or is there a solid type build for what i would like to do? and since im very used to AP, pyro, POM, Pyro, fireblast, Arcane missle, fireblast, AM.... all the damn time, i wouldnt really know that well on the spell use for other builds. I'm no drone, but i do love suggestions, and then building off those suggestions. I can play a frostie too, I did it for a bit (1-50).
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?n=Fayhugie&r=Aggramar
Thats me on Armory but i just wiped my talents so yeah. nothing there. Also, i picked up Gladiators Silk Cowl (the non Arena one) from doing pvp for the first time :).
Thanks in advance
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Well, since it sounds like PvP is what you want to do most, then definitely continue on with the 17/0/44 I see that you've respecced to, though it's a suboptimal variation for 5 mans/heroics/raids/etc. Lack of Frost Channeling is painful when threat is an issue(and it always is in 5 mans). And no Imp Frostbolt will hurt your damage itself.
I'm unsure of how your 49/12/0 build was setup, but something like that can indeed be great for 5 mans(less threat, and because the fights don't last nearly as long, the biggest weakness of arcane - mana efficiency - doesn't really come into play). Either your talents needed a little work, or you needed some changes to your playstyle. Unfortunately, I really need more information to tell you what it was that needed work, and that may be hard to get without you respeccing back.
What mods you running?
I'm unsure of how your 49/12/0 build was setup, but something like that can indeed be great for 5 mans(less threat, and because the fights don't last nearly as long, the biggest weakness of arcane - mana efficiency - doesn't really come into play). Either your talents needed a little work, or you needed some changes to your playstyle. Unfortunately, I really need more information to tell you what it was that needed work, and that may be hard to get without you respeccing back.
What mods you running?
13 posts
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2050550300230150333125105023101000000000000000000000000000000000000
Thats what i was using.
And as for the new build, i saw it on the site (Best mage post ever) and decided to try it out. Haha its hard to adjust from what i was using. I dont know if that will be too possible.
But i would like a build that lets me pvp alright while doing good ammounts of dmg in an instance if possible. After I get a little better gear, ill go one way or another, but until then i dont know.
Shoot, with the build i found, i went to use it, and then realized that i didnt know how. Would take some serious playing with. Fortunately i do not mind respecing again (dailies are wonderful) if needed.
As for mods, Um... alot of different stuff. Mostly inventory stuff along with a sheep macro, some enchanting mods... utilitarian stuff. I have a casting bar mod, cant remember what its called right now, and the Atlas mod and Cosmos mod. My comp is good enough where i dont mind downloading a mod to try it out and see if i like it.
pvp with my old build went somthing like poly/slow, AM, fireblast, POM pyro(most people can break movement imparing spells now a days), slow again, and AM or scorch if i wasnt dead yet (which usually Rogues beat the hell out of me, annoying little buggers). CS when i see a priest or another mage, things of that nature. It works... sometimes. Not all the time, or even most of the time. and everyone in the bg's tells me that i suck, but the little crappers wont tell me what exactly is wrong and what i can do better. Again, annoying.
Forgive my spelling, im a bit drunk right now :P
Thats what i was using.
And as for the new build, i saw it on the site (Best mage post ever) and decided to try it out. Haha its hard to adjust from what i was using. I dont know if that will be too possible.
But i would like a build that lets me pvp alright while doing good ammounts of dmg in an instance if possible. After I get a little better gear, ill go one way or another, but until then i dont know.
Shoot, with the build i found, i went to use it, and then realized that i didnt know how. Would take some serious playing with. Fortunately i do not mind respecing again (dailies are wonderful) if needed.
As for mods, Um... alot of different stuff. Mostly inventory stuff along with a sheep macro, some enchanting mods... utilitarian stuff. I have a casting bar mod, cant remember what its called right now, and the Atlas mod and Cosmos mod. My comp is good enough where i dont mind downloading a mod to try it out and see if i like it.
pvp with my old build went somthing like poly/slow, AM, fireblast, POM pyro(most people can break movement imparing spells now a days), slow again, and AM or scorch if i wasnt dead yet (which usually Rogues beat the hell out of me, annoying little buggers). CS when i see a priest or another mage, things of that nature. It works... sometimes. Not all the time, or even most of the time. and everyone in the bg's tells me that i suck, but the little crappers wont tell me what exactly is wrong and what i can do better. Again, annoying.
Forgive my spelling, im a bit drunk right now :P
Have you tried using a threat meter in instances? That's one of the best tools for maximizing DPS(you may find you were holding back unnecessarily).
The build you have now is awesome for PvP, ok for 5 mans. The build you used to have has a huge amount of potential in 5 mans. I'm gonna be honest and say I'm not entirely sure how well it would fare in PvP. Though theory says it should do alright. What were your experiences with it in PvP?
You see, in group PvE situations, 3 things hold your damage back as a mage. Here they are, listed in no particular order:
1)Your gear/spell rotations. In other words, your personal damage.
2)Threat.
3)Mana.
In 5 mans, the first two are big issues. What you can put out is dependent on your gear, how you go about attacking your enemies, and by how much damage you can do without pulling aggro.
Arcane specs are amazing on Threat. There simply is no better spec for the amount of damage you can do within a given threat threshold.
As far as gear goes, that comes with time and running instances. That leaves two possible culprits for how much damage you can do:
1)Spell rotation and how you play your mage in general.
2)Mana.
First question:
Were you having any issues with mana management?
Second question:
Well, not so much a question as a whole, but still. Run me through what you do in a typical pull of a pack of trash mobs. Something simple but still complicated. Perhaps a 4-5 enemy pull in Shadow Labyrinth on regular.
Now, run me through a boss pull. Something simple that basically allows you to chain cast. Let's say, Rokmar the Crackler in heroic SP, since I know you've done that one since you have the trinket from there.
I've got some ideas of things that you may be able to do to improve, but I want as much information as I can get first.
The build you have now is awesome for PvP, ok for 5 mans. The build you used to have has a huge amount of potential in 5 mans. I'm gonna be honest and say I'm not entirely sure how well it would fare in PvP. Though theory says it should do alright. What were your experiences with it in PvP?
You see, in group PvE situations, 3 things hold your damage back as a mage. Here they are, listed in no particular order:
1)Your gear/spell rotations. In other words, your personal damage.
2)Threat.
3)Mana.
In 5 mans, the first two are big issues. What you can put out is dependent on your gear, how you go about attacking your enemies, and by how much damage you can do without pulling aggro.
Arcane specs are amazing on Threat. There simply is no better spec for the amount of damage you can do within a given threat threshold.
As far as gear goes, that comes with time and running instances. That leaves two possible culprits for how much damage you can do:
1)Spell rotation and how you play your mage in general.
2)Mana.
First question:
Were you having any issues with mana management?
Second question:
Well, not so much a question as a whole, but still. Run me through what you do in a typical pull of a pack of trash mobs. Something simple but still complicated. Perhaps a 4-5 enemy pull in Shadow Labyrinth on regular.
Now, run me through a boss pull. Something simple that basically allows you to chain cast. Let's say, Rokmar the Crackler in heroic SP, since I know you've done that one since you have the trinket from there.
I've got some ideas of things that you may be able to do to improve, but I want as much information as I can get first.
13 posts
in Pvp, things were chancy. If i got lucky, i got lucky. If my Pom pyro fireblast did well (5k crits with pyro) then things would die fast.... maybe. But really, it was a luck of the draw type of thing. Unless i started the AOE.... AE with flamestrike= mass killing. Only in AV of course. in PVP, each missile did about 450-550 dmg and crits were for about 900-1000. Pyro critted for about 5k when AM'ed, and Fireblast would crit for about 2-3k every now and then. regular dmg with fireblast was about 800-1000 depending on the guys resilience. Most of the time, i didnt crit, and pyro only does about 1500 dmg give or take. In Pvp, i had to pray, and i never stood a chance against rogues, most locs, and most hunters(unless i got that lucky crit). If i got ganged on, which was like 90% of the time, i was totally screwed. but when i polyed someone, and they didnt proc their insignia, then it would stay forever :P. Enough for me and another mage to pyroblast.
okay 5 mans varied, but ill go with the Slabs pull. First thing would be to sheep,then target the main burn and start up a pyro (I would save my AM PoM for later unless i thought the tank was really good). it would go pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile, fireblast, untill it died then resheep and move on to the next one. If the Tank can hold aggro really well, i would Frost Nova, FlameStrike, Arcane Explosion and have fun with that. Clearcast would proc alot. If clearcast proc'ed when i was doing the single target thing, then i would cast an Arcane Missile automatically. Mana wasnt too big of an issue, but if i was with a group where i was the only dps, i would be OOMing about every 2 to 3 pulls. with a good group i could last on 50% for about 3-4 pulls. I had about 1150 mana without a kings buff (just me and my AI). If I found myself running out of mana too much, and i didnt really need the dmg of my AM, i would slow spam scorch till fireblast... and wait for a clearcast. Also, i would slow if the going started to get a bit rough.
Arcane Missile in a PvE situation would do 550-600 dmg per missle and then about 1100 crit per missile crit. crits happened alot, without kings and moonkin, my crit was about 21 percent.
With a boss, the idea is to wait for sunders (usually 3) then go Slow, Arcane Mind, Trinket thing, then pyro, PoM pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile. then just rotate the Arcane Missile and fireblast unless a clearcast procs, then go immieadtly to Arcane Missile. If i run out of mana, then Evo or mana pot, no big deal. I had enough mana and clearcast proced enough times where if i had to worry about having no mana after an Evo, then i could kiss my *** goodbye. or just Invisibility... that worked to get out of it too :P. Corse now i can just Ice Block with the new patch.
If i needed to do something special, like AoE with a boss, (that one fairly annoying boss in Bot... the second one i think. The one with the healing plants) then a frost nova, flamestrike, and while that was going nuke the boss, then go in there and AE things or just ice lance the remaining weak ones.
In PvE, i could tank some of the casters in a 70 instance and win. W00t. almost no health though... a bit over 6k.
Mana, all in all, wasnt a huge issue, but it was annoying to tell the truth. I was using alot of food thats for sure. No i dont use a threat meter, whats a good one?
Btw, disreguard my current build, i saw it just 6 hours ago, put the specs in, tried it... and holy crap its kinda weird. It seems fun and i could get used to it(which looks like will take a bit), but really im up for anything. Im a fast learner, and i think all aspects of mages are fun, not just Arcane, or fire, or frost.
okay 5 mans varied, but ill go with the Slabs pull. First thing would be to sheep,then target the main burn and start up a pyro (I would save my AM PoM for later unless i thought the tank was really good). it would go pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile, fireblast, untill it died then resheep and move on to the next one. If the Tank can hold aggro really well, i would Frost Nova, FlameStrike, Arcane Explosion and have fun with that. Clearcast would proc alot. If clearcast proc'ed when i was doing the single target thing, then i would cast an Arcane Missile automatically. Mana wasnt too big of an issue, but if i was with a group where i was the only dps, i would be OOMing about every 2 to 3 pulls. with a good group i could last on 50% for about 3-4 pulls. I had about 1150 mana without a kings buff (just me and my AI). If I found myself running out of mana too much, and i didnt really need the dmg of my AM, i would slow spam scorch till fireblast... and wait for a clearcast. Also, i would slow if the going started to get a bit rough.
Arcane Missile in a PvE situation would do 550-600 dmg per missle and then about 1100 crit per missile crit. crits happened alot, without kings and moonkin, my crit was about 21 percent.
With a boss, the idea is to wait for sunders (usually 3) then go Slow, Arcane Mind, Trinket thing, then pyro, PoM pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile. then just rotate the Arcane Missile and fireblast unless a clearcast procs, then go immieadtly to Arcane Missile. If i run out of mana, then Evo or mana pot, no big deal. I had enough mana and clearcast proced enough times where if i had to worry about having no mana after an Evo, then i could kiss my *** goodbye. or just Invisibility... that worked to get out of it too :P. Corse now i can just Ice Block with the new patch.
If i needed to do something special, like AoE with a boss, (that one fairly annoying boss in Bot... the second one i think. The one with the healing plants) then a frost nova, flamestrike, and while that was going nuke the boss, then go in there and AE things or just ice lance the remaining weak ones.
In PvE, i could tank some of the casters in a 70 instance and win. W00t. almost no health though... a bit over 6k.
Mana, all in all, wasnt a huge issue, but it was annoying to tell the truth. I was using alot of food thats for sure. No i dont use a threat meter, whats a good one?
Btw, disreguard my current build, i saw it just 6 hours ago, put the specs in, tried it... and holy crap its kinda weird. It seems fun and i could get used to it(which looks like will take a bit), but really im up for anything. Im a fast learner, and i think all aspects of mages are fun, not just Arcane, or fire, or frost.
Threatmeter: Omen or KTM. Take your pick. I prefer Omen.
Ah, here's part of your problem. When possible, it's often best to do an AB/AM rotation on your enemies, saving fireblast to finish off runners/mobs that are about to die. The major benefit from that is that you do so little threat for the damage that if you steal aggro off of a tank, the tank needs to be shot. So long as you didn't do something stupid anyway.
Using Slow is a waste, IMO, unless the boss is a ranged attacker. Save everything you have for damage. Once you see yourself on the meter with a decent tank, you'll probably find your threat was very low and you had a lot of room to DPS harder.
Honestly, though, since you've stated that you'd enjoy any build, try one of the PvE oriented ones(or a version that's both PvE and PvP) and hit up an instance. If it's a frost spec, cast frostbolts almost exclusively unless AoE or Nova is needed. And use the elemental every time he's up if you have him. If it's a fire spec, ramp up Imp scorch on bosses and fireball away, refreshing scorch whenever it's down. Watch your threat with either of those. Or if arcane, 2x AB then AM then scorch. If you do it right, you'll get a 2 debuff AB for the cost of a no debuff AB. And when you need burst damage, AP Trinket ABx3 PoM Pyro AB til OOM. Trust me, that'll give you some sick burst damage overall.
Squallcrack wrote:
okay 5 mans varied, but ill go with the Slabs pull. First thing would be to sheep,then target the main burn and start up a pyro (I would save my AM PoM for later unless i thought the tank was really good). it would go pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile, fireblast, untill it died then resheep and move on to the next one. If the Tank can hold aggro really well, i would Frost Nova, FlameStrike, Arcane Explosion and have fun with that. Clearcast would proc alot. If clearcast proc'ed when i was doing the single target thing, then i would cast an Arcane Missile automatically. Mana wasnt too big of an issue, but if i was with a group where i was the only dps, i would be OOMing about every 2 to 3 pulls. with a good group i could last on 50% for about 3-4 pulls. I had about 1150 mana without a kings buff (just me and my AI). If I found myself running out of mana too much, and i didnt really need the dmg of my AM, i would slow spam scorch till fireblast... and wait for a clearcast. Also, i would slow if the going started to get a bit rough.
Ah, here's part of your problem. When possible, it's often best to do an AB/AM rotation on your enemies, saving fireblast to finish off runners/mobs that are about to die. The major benefit from that is that you do so little threat for the damage that if you steal aggro off of a tank, the tank needs to be shot. So long as you didn't do something stupid anyway.
Squallcrack wrote:
With a boss, the idea is to wait for sunders (usually 3) then go Slow, Arcane Mind, Trinket thing, then pyro, PoM pyro, fireblast, Arcane Missile. then just rotate the Arcane Missile and fireblast unless a clearcast procs, then go immieadtly to Arcane Missile. If i run out of mana, then Evo or mana pot, no big deal. I had enough mana and clearcast proced enough times where if i had to worry about having no mana after an Evo, then i could kiss my *** goodbye. or just Invisibility... that worked to get out of it too :P. Corse now i can just Ice Block with the new patch.
Using Slow is a waste, IMO, unless the boss is a ranged attacker. Save everything you have for damage. Once you see yourself on the meter with a decent tank, you'll probably find your threat was very low and you had a lot of room to DPS harder.
Honestly, though, since you've stated that you'd enjoy any build, try one of the PvE oriented ones(or a version that's both PvE and PvP) and hit up an instance. If it's a frost spec, cast frostbolts almost exclusively unless AoE or Nova is needed. And use the elemental every time he's up if you have him. If it's a fire spec, ramp up Imp scorch on bosses and fireball away, refreshing scorch whenever it's down. Watch your threat with either of those. Or if arcane, 2x AB then AM then scorch. If you do it right, you'll get a 2 debuff AB for the cost of a no debuff AB. And when you need burst damage, AP Trinket ABx3 PoM Pyro AB til OOM. Trust me, that'll give you some sick burst damage overall.
13 posts
... wow nice. I might want to try a 33/28/0 or a 40 arcane somthing because i can. That would be cool. Thanks a lot, i appreciate the tips. :)
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