Whats the theory behind strive for either dodge or parry for a tank?
I got a lot of dodge%, mainly because thats so easy to get. Is this because parry is actually better?
Ofc i know they are both avoidance but i heard that parry also makes your next attack do more damage or something. On the other hand, i also heard that it makes the next attack of the mob do more dmg.
Any thoughts?
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 11:31am by gnetter
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Dodge or parry rating?Follow
When you parry the mob, your next attack comes quicker.
When the mob parries you, their next attack comes quicker.
Parry is superior to Dodge, except that because it takes more rating to get 1% Parry than 1% Dodge as a general rule you're better off with the Dodge (or DEF Rating) instead.
When the mob parries you, their next attack comes quicker.
Parry is superior to Dodge, except that because it takes more rating to get 1% Parry than 1% Dodge as a general rule you're better off with the Dodge (or DEF Rating) instead.
It takes 23.65 parry rating to equal 1% of parry. It takes 18.92 dodge rating to equal 1% of dodge. If parry is 20% "better" than dodge (just an arbitrary valuation), then you need 1.2% of dodge (22.7 dodge rating) to equal 1% of parry (23.65 parry rating), which makes 1 dodge rating almost exactly equal to 1 parry rating.
parry might be more or less than 20% superior to dodge though, I'm not sure how to quantify that.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:04pm by duvar
parry might be more or less than 20% superior to dodge though, I'm not sure how to quantify that.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:04pm by duvar
duvar wrote:
It takes 23.65 parry rating to equal 1% of parry. It takes 18.92 dodge rating to equal 1% of dodge. If parry is 20% "better" than dodge (just an arbitrary valuation), then you need 1.2% of dodge (22.7 dodge rating) to equal 1% of parry (23.65 parry rating), which makes 1 dodge rating almost exactly equal to 1 parry rating.
parry might be more or less than 20% superior to dodge though, I'm not sure how to quantify that.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:04pm by duvar
parry might be more or less than 20% superior to dodge though, I'm not sure how to quantify that.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:04pm by duvar
Parry adds a bit of TPS, Dodge adds more pure Mit. In general, Dodge is the better choice and then you can use the 'free' stat points to raise TPS in other ways (AGI, SBV).
parry also only works in the front arc of the character model, dodge works on all sides of the character.
expertise is probably the best tps choice for tanks, lowering mob parry is kinda like avoidance.
expertise is probably the best tps choice for tanks, lowering mob parry is kinda like avoidance.
Ay devious fair point. Ill just go for dodge when i need a red gem then.
Cheers for the help guys.
Cheers for the help guys.
Later on parry will help out a lot. My T4 set gives me 200 damage protection % when I parry something. It procs enough to make it worth it... my example was waiting outside ZA and having another protection warrior challenge me to a duel. It was the lonnnnnnngest fight ever. Our shield bubble kept proc'n. It was actually a fun fight.
Dodge is also nice, any % more to advoid 2-5k damage is worth it. However now that I have that bonus, I'm going to lean more towards parry when I can... we get a nice dodge enchant from Keepers of Time.
Edited, Jan 13th 2008 5:44pm by GYFFORD
Dodge is also nice, any % more to advoid 2-5k damage is worth it. However now that I have that bonus, I'm going to lean more towards parry when I can... we get a nice dodge enchant from Keepers of Time.
Edited, Jan 13th 2008 5:44pm by GYFFORD
Quote:
parry also only works in the front arc of the character model, dodge works on all sides of the character.
expertise is probably the best tps choice for tanks, lowering mob parry is kinda like avoidance.
expertise is probably the best tps choice for tanks, lowering mob parry is kinda like avoidance.
FALSE FALSE FALSE!!! Dodge and parry are both frontal 180 degree arc for players, parry is a 180 degree arc while dodge is a 360 degree arc for mobs. Two of several reasons to have the tank in front of a mob and any other melee DPS behind (so the tank can dodge/parry/block to increase survivability and so the DPS don't get parried/blocked which would decrease DPS).
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=6;mid=120016412441512668
Go down to the first set of posts that use quotes (excepting sigs).
EDIT: Also, expertise is less than half as effective on mobs that can't parry, since you lose 50% of the (D/T)PS bonus and all of the extra survivability by removing some parry from the table.
Edited, Jan 14th 2008 12:52am by skribs
skribs wrote:
EDIT: Also, expertise is less than half as effective on mobs that can't parry, since you lose 50% of the (D/T)PS bonus and all of the extra survivability by removing some parry from the table.
Does such a mob even exist? Even a slime oozing on the ground can parry.
Quote:
FALSE FALSE FALSE!!! Dodge and parry are both frontal 180 degree arc for players
I am almost certain I've had an attack dodged when I've attack a player from behind. I haven't pvped in awhile so I can't say with all certainty but I'm almost certain it's happend.
Ialaman wrote:
skribs wrote:
EDIT: Also, expertise is less than half as effective on mobs that can't parry, since you lose 50% of the (D/T)PS bonus and all of the extra survivability by removing some parry from the table.
Does such a mob even exist? Even a slime oozing on the ground can parry.
Well, not if you're attacking them from behind. Anyone DPSing a mob that is being tanked, should be doing so from behind, in which case the player is already eliminating the possibility of their attacks being parried.
So it's not that you're going to lose 50% of the bonus. You're just not going to see the same benefit if you attack from behind because the mob's chance to parry has already been reduced to 0. You're still reducing the chance to dodge, and it's still better than hit. Expertise is a bigger boost to tanks than DPS, but it's still great for everyone.
Having a player dodge while you're behind him could be due to lag. If players are jumping around like an FPS-pro it sometimes causes issues with the game's ability to locate exactly where you are.
from behind definately eliminates parry.
dodge..i can't remember. but you can still miss. (very annoying missing on an ambush or somethin.)
dodge..i can't remember. but you can still miss. (very annoying missing on an ambush or somethin.)
CamelToad wrote:
Ialaman wrote:
skribs wrote:
EDIT: Also, expertise is less than half as effective on mobs that can't parry, since you lose 50% of the (D/T)PS bonus and all of the extra survivability by removing some parry from the table.
Does such a mob even exist? Even a slime oozing on the ground can parry.
Well, not if you're attacking them from behind. Anyone DPSing a mob that is being tanked, should be doing so from behind, in which case the player is already eliminating the possibility of their attacks being parried.
So it's not that you're going to lose 50% of the bonus. You're just not going to see the same benefit if you attack from behind because the mob's chance to parry has already been reduced to 0. You're still reducing the chance to dodge, and it's still better than hit. Expertise is a bigger boost to tanks than DPS, but it's still great for everyone.
Maybe I should have quoted more of the post, but the first post I quoted was replying to devioususer who said that Expertise was the best TPS increase. Then skribs said it's not as good on mobs that can't parry. My question would be, really, how many mobs are there that you want to build threat on that aren't parrying you? Gruul, maybe, but that's really about it. Even for Void Reaver you want to have all the tanks on the same side so that if there is a sudden transition, you don't have VR turn and face the melee and then parry-gib your tank due to all the melee attacks.
So given that we'd be attacking from the front, what mobs are there that don't parry?
Ialaman wrote:
So given that we'd be attacking from the front, what mobs are there that don't parry?
There aren't any.
Anyway... worst-case, Expertise is as good as +Hit is for a tank (if it's only reducing Dodge)... and besides Expertise, +Hit is the best TPS stat. It's still phenominal.
Well, I knew prince only had parry at certain points in the fight, so I just assumed that some mobs didnt have parry. My mistake.
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