Hey guys, I'm pretty new around here. I've already learned a lot from the stickies and all the other great posts i've read, but i still have a couple of questions.
I'm level 11 right now. I've put my 2 talent points into Improved Arcane Missles. I've read a lot of post about what you should put your points into, but most of those have to do with higher level players.
The reason i chose Improved Arcane Missles is because my spells get interupted a lot, and when my spells get interrupted, I die.
Right now I'm planning on maxing out Improved Missles. After that maybe improved fireball or frost.
I like to be a solo player. I don't group unless i have to....at least while grinding. My ultimate goal is to get to level 25-30 and put points into frost and start AoE grinding.
With all that in mind....
Should I put my talent points into frost right now, and start building up my talents for AoE grinding, or is it ineffective to do that? If so, should i continue with improved arcane missle and then start improved fireball? And then, where do i go from there?
Thanks for reading, and for you help.
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Need Advice, lvl 11 MageFollow
I suggest you pick your primary nuke and school (fire/frost/arcane) and make that one stronger.
The best way to avoid getting interupted in your spell casting is to kill it before it reaches you. There are two basic ways to do this; kill it fast (see fire) or slow it down while you kill it (see frost) By putting points in improved frostbolt or fireball, you will help achieve those results. I suggest you go with frost right away since your plan is to AOE grind in a few levels.
You may also try fire until you get there to test it out but without all its cool toys, you may not appreciate fire at its full value.
Improved arcane missile for me would be taken much later, or for PVP purposes.
This is only my opinion but I hope it will serve you well.
The best way to avoid getting interupted in your spell casting is to kill it before it reaches you. There are two basic ways to do this; kill it fast (see fire) or slow it down while you kill it (see frost) By putting points in improved frostbolt or fireball, you will help achieve those results. I suggest you go with frost right away since your plan is to AOE grind in a few levels.
You may also try fire until you get there to test it out but without all its cool toys, you may not appreciate fire at its full value.
Improved arcane missile for me would be taken much later, or for PVP purposes.
This is only my opinion but I hope it will serve you well.
In the early levels, I think that IAM is fine. Arcane missles do easily get interrupted and you don't have that many weapons at your disposal. They aren't very mana efficient, but neither is death.
You can level up to 70 with any tree, although frost will improve your survivability. I leveled with a pure fire spec and didn't have any problems other that the occasional ghost run or 2.
In the fire tree, the important ones for leveling would be increased range, stun, and ignite.
Good luck
You can level up to 70 with any tree, although frost will improve your survivability. I leveled with a pure fire spec and didn't have any problems other that the occasional ghost run or 2.
In the fire tree, the important ones for leveling would be increased range, stun, and ignite.
Good luck
I would not touch arcane until lvl 50, at a minimum. Check out this post for some good ideas.
Quote:
Right now I'm planning on maxing out Improved Missles. After that maybe improved fireball or frost.
I like to be a solo player. I don't group unless i have to....at least while grinding. My ultimate goal is to get to level 25-30 and put points into frost and start AoE grinding.
With all that in mind....
Should I put my talent points into frost right now, and start building up my talents for AoE grinding, or is it ineffective to do that? If so, should i continue with improved arcane missle and then start improved fireball? And then, where do i go from there?
I like to be a solo player. I don't group unless i have to....at least while grinding. My ultimate goal is to get to level 25-30 and put points into frost and start AoE grinding.
With all that in mind....
Should I put my talent points into frost right now, and start building up my talents for AoE grinding, or is it ineffective to do that? If so, should i continue with improved arcane missle and then start improved fireball? And then, where do i go from there?
Well at level 11 it doesn't make that much of a difference, but for leveling most people do not choose arcane because the tree really seems to rely much more on its downtree talents (you will have mana issues), whereas frost and fire both do well in the up and mid tree talent areas.
I wouldn't worry too much about AOE grinding either at this stage -- that's much more effective once you have a mount and access to some of the improved frost spells. To be honest, I would recommend choosing either frost or fire to level depending on which style you prefer better (burning down the house before it gets to you (fire) or slowing/snaring/strafing type of playstyle (frost)). I think both work well for leveling.
34 posts
ive seen a lot of specs and i dont think ive ever seen one that has points put into Improved Arcane Missle....Why is that?
seems like not getting your spell interupted would be a valuable talent, and missles do a lot of damage.
seems like not getting your spell interupted would be a valuable talent, and missles do a lot of damage.
At low levels, arcane missiles run you out of mana quickly. I actually use arcane missiles at lvl 70 with a deep arcane build, but there are a lot of things that contribute to what I'm doing. I am primarilly PvPing, where Arcane Missiles really do a lot of things I like. I also have +1.1K spell damage, making them hurt. For a leveling build, I would *never* put stuff into arcane. Look at that post I linked.
You could run up and hit things with a stick until they die, and it would work, but you would get really frustrated with the amount of damage you do and how many times you die. With arcane leveling, you'll run into the same things. You can level with arcane, but you can level with a stick too... doesn't make it a smart thing to do.
You could run up and hit things with a stick until they die, and it would work, but you would get really frustrated with the amount of damage you do and how many times you die. With arcane leveling, you'll run into the same things. You can level with arcane, but you can level with a stick too... doesn't make it a smart thing to do.
jlutz wrote:
ive seen a lot of specs and i dont think ive ever seen one that has points put into Improved Arcane Missle....Why is that?
Because later in the game many people are specced frost or fire. With fire, it's dead before it hits you (and fire has it's own interrupt minimizing talent) and with frost you can keep it off you so interrupts aren't an issue.
That said, as others have mentioned, early points in IAM aren't a bad thing at all. Your other spells just aren't that powerful yet and it's a nice thing to still be able to cause dmg with something on you.
I leveled my mage as fire (I like the big booms) but my first points went into IAM and stayed there for quite a while until I respecced because I wanted something in the fire tree and found that I wasn't using AM anymore.
edit: To what KTangent said - I personally liked having the IAM early on, but thst would be the ONLY thing I put in arcane for quite a while. Clearcasting is nice, but you want to focus on getting your damage up first.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 11:29am by Celcio
Quote:
edit: To what KTangent said - I personally liked having the IAM early on, but thst would be the ONLY thing I put in arcane for quite a while. Clearcasting is nice, but you want to focus on getting your damage up first.
I would say that it is better to cast 5 frostbolts instead of 4, or 4 fireballs instead of 3 due to the 'improved fireball'/'improved frostbolt' talents the is the bread and butter of those classes and the 2nd tier talents (range on fireball and frostbite for frost) far outshine any interruptability on arcane missiles. You're swapping damage for utility while leveling.
I never really used AM. Earlier levels, it was always Frostbolt and Fireball, and Frost Nova as needed. If Frost Nova got resisted, I ran away or died.
Now I find that I only use AM in instances where the mobs health is low, I need to hit them fast, and Fire Blast is on CD. Otherwise, I don't touch it.
My recommendation would be to put the first few points into improved Fireball or Frostbolt. Kill mobs faster so you don't get hit. 0.5s is a surprisingly noticable amount of time.
Edit - oh, and forget about AoE until lvl 28. Blizzard is just not strong enough until then. Plus, most of the lvl 28 spells are utilized in AoE, so they will be at their max potential. To make it work earlier (pre-lvl 28), you have to be really good. Since this is your first mage, you won't be good at AoE.
Edit 2 - Since you are getting hit, you should really be practicing "not" getting hit instead of working on talents that allow you to get hit. Trust me, it will help you in the long run.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:39pm by YJMark
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:42pm by YJMark
Now I find that I only use AM in instances where the mobs health is low, I need to hit them fast, and Fire Blast is on CD. Otherwise, I don't touch it.
My recommendation would be to put the first few points into improved Fireball or Frostbolt. Kill mobs faster so you don't get hit. 0.5s is a surprisingly noticable amount of time.
Edit - oh, and forget about AoE until lvl 28. Blizzard is just not strong enough until then. Plus, most of the lvl 28 spells are utilized in AoE, so they will be at their max potential. To make it work earlier (pre-lvl 28), you have to be really good. Since this is your first mage, you won't be good at AoE.
Edit 2 - Since you are getting hit, you should really be practicing "not" getting hit instead of working on talents that allow you to get hit. Trust me, it will help you in the long run.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:39pm by YJMark
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:42pm by YJMark
Maybe a little late, but I've had two mages. The first one specced in IAM to start, to get an uninterruptible nuke, and then began on the fire tree. I abandoned him at 23, he kept dying. The second one started with improved fireball (or whatever the shorter cast talent is) and kept going. He rarely dies because he kills everything before it gets to him. That was the case even at lvl 11.
Arcane is a mixed bag. Those uninterruptible missiles arent as good as being able to fire off two uninterrupted fireballs, fireblast, frost nova, strafe (ie, move to the side, out of melee range) and another fireball or two, which will kill most lvl 11 mobs. And as you level up you'll get more return on investment in those fireballs, making them even more deadly. I imagine the same is true for frost. Stick to one tree, it will become exponentially more powerful, then get arcane later.
Arcane is a mixed bag. Those uninterruptible missiles arent as good as being able to fire off two uninterrupted fireballs, fireblast, frost nova, strafe (ie, move to the side, out of melee range) and another fireball or two, which will kill most lvl 11 mobs. And as you level up you'll get more return on investment in those fireballs, making them even more deadly. I imagine the same is true for frost. Stick to one tree, it will become exponentially more powerful, then get arcane later.
34 posts
well unfortunatly i already put 2 points into IAM, but since its only 2 points there probably isn't too much potential for it to hurt me....espically since i will be respecing at level 28ish to AOE frost grind.
thanks for all the great info.
thanks for all the great info.
jlutz wrote:
well unfortunatly i already put 2 points into IAM, but since its only 2 points there probably isn't too much potential for it to hurt me....espically since i will be respecing at level 28ish to AOE frost grind.
thanks for all the great info.
thanks for all the great info.
If you're serious about AoE grinding, learn to kite a single mob from now until then. Do your absolute best to learn not to get hit, ever. This will serve you very well later on when you AoE grind.
34 posts
its hard to kite a mob when all you have is frostbolt and it only last for a few seconds
which is where permafrost comes in handy!
34 posts
what level do you get that?
It is a talent in the second tier of the frost tree, so you can get that (or start of the three levels) at level 15. After a point or whatever in that may want to look into frostbite or improved frost nova.
34 posts
I'll be putting my points into that then
jlutz wrote:
its hard to kite a mob when all you have is frostbolt and it only last for a few seconds
Actually, without frostbite/permafrost, that's the easiest time. Because your frostbolts cast so incredibly quickly.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 8:54am by Poldaran
34 posts
it may cast quickly, but i still dont have time to fire off a firebolt and increase my distance from the mob, and then frost him again, before he closes the gap with me. Unless its a slow mob.
I might be able to keep him kited by just using frost bolt and running away (rinse/repeat), but that would take forever.
am i missing something?
I might be able to keep him kited by just using frost bolt and running away (rinse/repeat), but that would take forever.
am i missing something?
jlutz wrote:
it may cast quickly, but i still dont have time to fire off a firebolt and increase my distance from the mob, and then frost him again, before he closes the gap with me. Unless its a slow mob.
I might be able to keep him kited by just using frost bolt and running away (rinse/repeat), but that would take forever.
am i missing something?
I might be able to keep him kited by just using frost bolt and running away (rinse/repeat), but that would take forever.
am i missing something?
Don't fire off a fireball. Just continuously cast frostbolts.
Kiting is very hard at your level. Without Permafrost, Frostbite, or Improved Frost Nova, you'll probably get killed a lot - I did :)
Those are all second tier talents.
I asked the same question on this forum when I was your level.
At your level, the best bet is to:
1) Polymorph
2) Move to max distance
3) Frostbolt
4) Fireball
5) Frostbolt (or Fireblast, depending on how close mob is getting)
6) Frost Nova
7) Back up or strafe
8) Fireball
That should kill 99% of the mobs you face. If they have a little health left, then either wand, hit with stick, or anything else you want to do.
Edit - If you really want to kite, then just use Frostbolt/run/repeat, using Frost Nova whenever needed. It will take forever, but that is the point of kiting :)
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 11:29am by YJMark
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 11:32am by YJMark
Those are all second tier talents.
I asked the same question on this forum when I was your level.
At your level, the best bet is to:
1) Polymorph
2) Move to max distance
3) Frostbolt
4) Fireball
5) Frostbolt (or Fireblast, depending on how close mob is getting)
6) Frost Nova
7) Back up or strafe
8) Fireball
That should kill 99% of the mobs you face. If they have a little health left, then either wand, hit with stick, or anything else you want to do.
Edit - If you really want to kite, then just use Frostbolt/run/repeat, using Frost Nova whenever needed. It will take forever, but that is the point of kiting :)
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 11:29am by YJMark
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 11:32am by YJMark
Once you can kite... you can drag really hard mobs to cities and watch them wreak chaos on the inhabitants.... I mean... uh... you can kite hard mobs to guards to help you kill them. ;-)
lol - nice :)
What I hate is when I kite some monster to an area, and the locals don't help. Like Refuge Point in Arathi. It just seems silly to be killed while 3 guards are standing around you....
What I hate is when I kite some monster to an area, and the locals don't help. Like Refuge Point in Arathi. It just seems silly to be killed while 3 guards are standing around you....
Quote:
At your level, the best bet is to:
1) Polymorph
2) Move to max distance
1) Polymorph
2) Move to max distance
That is sound advice, YJMark, especially if you are not sure if the mob you are targeting is going to aggro another, Hilsbrad Farmers for instance. If it does draw aggro from another, you have time to kill the aggro and then re-sheep to catch your breath or re-gain distance. That is a lesson that took me a LONG time to learn and I now use to this day while solo roasting.
What I would offer is this: stay out of groups for a while and learn what you can and CANNOT do using everything in your ******** fire, ice & arcane. Nothing teaches better than your own experience and the desire to avoid the spirit healer. Fight over your head and find out how many hits it takes to send you to the grave. Learn if you prefer to kill them quick (fire) or avoid damage all together and kite (frost). The 2 points already spent in IAM are not going to make or break you anytime soon and it will be cheap to re-spec once you solidify your playing style.
I read so much on here when I started Thamage my head spun. The amount of quality information is amazing and can be overwhelming at times. After reading about the control of frost, I started in frost but quickly decided I wanted the mob dead quick... I just was not patient enough to drag a fight out by kiting. So, I went fire and love it. I am hooked and cannot make myself even attempt to kite; just not in me.
You also might want to reconsider the AoE grinding. From I have been reading from the forum sages, it seems since the last patches that the XP will be much greater from grinding out quests than AoE. Since I don't AoE grind, I am sure others can respond much better than me.
Other than that, welcome to Magedom!
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