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Too much defense...Follow

#1 Jan 10 2008 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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314 posts
Good Morning all! If you don't mind I'm gonna trouble ya'll w/ a question. With the recent aquirement of some new pieces to my tanking set, my defense is much higher than it needs to be (around 430). Now, I have the three clefthoof pieces, and in those pieces there are 4 yellow sockets. As of right now, these yellow sockets are filled with defense type stones.

My question is, what would be a good option to fill these spots instead of the defense rating? I was thinking hit rating (my thinking being, no matter how much hate you generate, it won't mean squat if your missing), but I would welcome some suggestions! Thank you for your time and have a wonderful thursday!

#2 Jan 10 2008 at 5:34 AM Rating: Good
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1,888 posts
If you are not hit capped yet, sure, go with hit rating until you are. If you are already capped, there is no reason to do it. Instead, go with stamina/agility/dodge gems (not sure if they are yellow, though).
#3 Jan 10 2008 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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314 posts
Hmmm hit rating cap...I'm betting I'm far below that...what would be the cap?
#4 Jan 10 2008 at 5:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,888 posts
MistressRanea wrote:
Hmmm hit rating cap...I'm betting I'm far below that...what would be the cap?

Probably, this link will answer your question:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Expertise#Expertise_against_Bosses
#5 Jan 10 2008 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
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314 posts
Thank you that did answer my question and was a very helpful post. Rate up!
#6 Jan 10 2008 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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186 posts
Being hit capped for a bear is not really a priority. It's definately not a bad thing, but gemming to reach the hit cap in your tanking gear will severly hinder overall mitigation.

If you're just above uncrittable but losing all your +def gems will drop you below, I'd suggest replacing them one at a time with enduring talasite (4def/6stam) until you're at exactly -2.6% to be critted.

If the socket bonus is worth it and even the enduring talasites will keep you above the cap, the next best option for yellow slots is probably the glinting noble topaz (4hit/4agi.) If the socket bonus isn't terribly helpful though, I'd go with one of the following: solid star of elune (12stam), shifting nightseye (4agi/6stam), or delicate living ruby (8agi) depending on your current levels of health and avoidance.

Also, a note on defense rating that most of us probably know but that needs to be repeated as much as possible. With SotF, we need 2.6% crit reduction to be uncrittable. While 415 defense takes care of this, resilience also reduces chance to be critted. Depending on gear, it's quite possible that you can remain uncrittable while dropping to <400 defense and put some of those itemization points towards more agility to up your avoidance.
#7 Jan 10 2008 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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314 posts
Aye my defense/resilience puts me well above, which is why I'm looking to replace the stones. I definitely like the suggestion for hit rating and agility stones and will be going with that. Thank you.
#8 Jan 10 2008 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
As a Kara MTing Druid I have to say Hit rating is way over rated. Dps you need it Tank only after Stam and AGI. I would replace all your chest gems with 12stam as long as you remain uncritable. Try to put the hit and agi gems in Items that you use for dps and tank if you have any before you put them into tank only spots.
#9 Jan 10 2008 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
just remember that + def also increases your avoidance. being over def = a slight chance to dodge and to get missed. however I agree to get more agi (not dodge agi) to increase your dodge potential. 1 agi is worth more than 1.5 points in dodge rating because it gives more dodge % and more chance for crit than dodge rating alone.
#10 Jan 10 2008 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
As a Kara MTing Druid I have to say Hit rating is way over rated


Agree 100%. My tanking set has basically no hit rating on and this has never been an issue for me. We generate plenty of threat (compared to warriors) even with the odd miss thrown in. Missing with a taunt can in theory be a problem, but so far I have never noticed it. Certainly not worth wasting soo much itemisation points on +hit. Far better to stick with Agi & Sta.


Other than that, what JamisonP said about gems is spot on. Unless you are already at 20-21k health raid buffed, I would probably go with the 12Sta gems. The only time I would use a yellow gem in the Clefthoof is if it helps me meet my meta gem requirements, and even then, I need to check to make sure that I am not losing more than I am gaining by doing so
#11 Jan 10 2008 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
I just socketed my first Clefthoof piece, the boots. I put in a +12 stam and a +4 DR / +6 Stam gem. Those aren't good ideas?

This seems like a good place to ask. I'm about to get Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders for tanking. One red, one yellow. Should I ignore the bonus and socket them with 2 Solid Stars of Elune?
#12 Jan 10 2008 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
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97 posts
Lorimath wrote:
I just socketed my first Clefthoof piece, the boots. I put in a +12 stam and a +4 DR / +6 Stam gem. Those aren't good ideas?

This seems like a good place to ask. I'm about to get Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders for tanking. One red, one yellow. Should I ignore the bonus and socket them with 2 Solid Stars of Elune?


When I first got HC set, I went with Enduring Talasites for yellow slots and
Solid Star of Elune for blues, however it didn't take long until I had too much
defense with rings, cloak, neck and Earthwarden.

On my druid, I just got S1 chest and shoulders and and found myself swimming in
anti-crit.... With 2-piece gladiator, tanking rings (all have def I guess) and
tank cloak (which most also has def) you will find yourself far above
crit immune. The 3 resilience gem bonus becomes quite useless imo, so you
are free to socket whatever the heck you need. I went for +12 stam in both, as
my hp is only at ~13k unbuffed. Only alternatives you should consider IMO are
either pure +stam, pure +agility if you are happy with your current hp, or
shifting gems (agi and stam) if you want to boost both hp and dodge.

Meh I am probably ranting again :P

Anyway I think my point is that just look at your other pieces of gear and what
they bring to the table. And ofc the gem bonus. If it is crap, scrap it.
Remember also that agility is A LOT better for a druid than dodge rating.

Example HC boots:
One yellow socket
One blue socket
Bonus: +3 dodge rating = 3/18.9 ~ 0.16 dodge

Most folks would put Solid something in the blue slot, I just thought I'd list
some alternatives for the yellow one.

+8 def would give you 0.14 from gem + bonus = 0.3 dodge and of course no stamina
+4 def, +6 stam would net 0.07 + 0.16 = 0.23 dodge and 6 stamina
+4 hit, +4 agi would give 0.27 + 0.16 = 0.43 dodge and no stamina

Ignoring the bonus, there are also
+8 agi would give 0.54 dodge and no stamina
+4 agi, +6 stam gives 0.27 dodge and 6 stam
or of course +12 stam

Point here is that if you are crit immune already, you can actually get more
out of the item by not gemming for the bonus.

Like others have said, you don't need to focus on +hit, and my advice is not
to gem for it unless you need some meta requirement, and the 18 stam one doesnt.
Some people would prefer the +12 agi one tho.
Agility is a very good stat both for tanking and dps, as it provides dodge,
crit both for threat generation and of course dps, and also AP in cat form.
Stamina is your life though, literally. Everyone likes a high HP tank.


Formulas used (from wowwiki):
1 defense skill = 0.04% dodge
2.36 defense rating = 1 defense skill
18.9 dodge rating = 1% dodge
14.7059 agility = 1% dodge
#13 Jan 11 2008 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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256 posts
Just be glad as long as you have this problem. It will swing the other way once you start getting your T4. There is absolutely no defence to be found on any of the druid tier gear, so hang on to any +def rings, trinktes, necks and so on. You will need it.
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