Spell haste vs crit?Follow

i never claimed i had these stats. as i said. i was using the stats YOU provided. only reason i said "you and me" in the examples was simply for examples. MY stats outside raid buffs are about 24% crit, 202 hit, 1140 +dmg. but those wouldn't be viable for an 'equal' comparison in dps with different specs compared to your gear. so i took the stats you gave for the example.

demo ISN'T superior to dest in T5 content. it isn't superior in any content other than for tanking. also WWS your next raid. i'm more than happy to link mine and you'll see me up at the top. as DEST

also i never said i had any T6 and you are creating a strawman arguement, heck the fact you said you're not is obvious that you don't even know what it means. so i'll educate you.
it's when someone attacks part of the opositions arguement in an attempt to deface their credibility.

also just because i haven't given it a try doesn't mean i haven't researched into it and looked at the findings of others who HAVE checked it out. oh and as i've said. they've all come to the conclusion that demo is the worst dps from the lot. the only reason you seem to be doing well is most likely 'cos you know how to play and the rest of your locks arn't 'amazing' players. heck it's why i beat the better geared locks in my guild. 'cos even though they out gear me and are 0/21/40 spec. they don't realise that you need dots.

k. find me posts of people saying demo is > than dest. ive yet to see any and i'm a fan of the O forums, here and elitist jerks. also i do have 7.17% haste. forgot to add that and when i done the maths. we both had that too

lol how almost all my posts got rated down.
Priest, Jenova i guess none of you have ever seen a demo-lock in action in a raid enviroment.

Topped dmg-meter again through tk today(except kael, whom we attempted the first time today)

Edited, Jan 13th 2008 5:03pm by Oakenwrath

guess you didn´t look close enough...have a look at schnabel, friana and look at the hunters, just to name a few
Have a look at the warlock den posts where there are plenty of demo-locks doing mh/bt and saying on many encounters raid-demo reigns surpreme.
Just installed wws can´t wait until next wednsday.

Edited, Jan 13th 2008 8:06pm by Oakenwrath

of course mono-causal explanations tend to be more wrong than others like: "it´s your gear" or "you $uck"

Playing raid-demo requires actually some skill and some micromanagement. its a bit different than doing 4 hours/night 11111111111111111111.

So those two are going at it again....Anyways as per the OP's question. Me personally, I'd keep the 17 crit over the haste. With 15.77 equalling 1% increase to your spell casting speed, I doubt you'll notice much of a difference except on bosses, and even then it should be rather small. But like a previous person said you'll need to equip quite a bit of it to see a difference. But I wouldnt bother with it too much unless you plan on getting more of it.


Another way to look at it though would be to get a dps logger like recount. Then you could look and see how many times your casting all of your spells in a raid and then you can see it in black and white how much it will improve your casting. Just a thought.

Nono, an affliction warlock needs just as much hit from gear as a Destro lock does.



I guess youve never actually seen a WWS link? I'm not asking for one again.

by the time you're regularly raiding SSC/TK. all locks, regardless of spec, need 202 +hit. suppression is NOT a viable alternative.

also kbd, the idea that afliction locks stack more damage than dest is a myth. there isn't really any gear that provides a sizable +dmg increase without providing the required crit as well for a dest lock, and the few pieces that there are (shadow feet, back etc..) a dest lock would also want these seeing as there's more than enough crit on other gear.

in the end the only locks to have a sizable increase in damage are demo locks, and their CoDs actually do less damage than both afliction and dest locks.

We have been farming BT since thanksgiving, and I fail to see how shadow priest itemizations have anything to do with affliction hit vs. destro hit. Except for the Tier pieces, our shadow priest are wearing the exact same thing that we are. I think you fail to realize that over 50% of an affliction locks damage still comes from SBs. Therefore, it is just as important for him to be at 202 hit, as a destruction lock.

How about an example? give us a piece of BT gear that has more +dmg than its counterpart with no hit/crit. Thats what your saying, the higher damage items go to affliction warlocks, and the rest to destro. Thats......I cant think of a good word, so I'll just say DUMB. Have you even seen the 4 piece T6? and if youve done the math behind it, youll realize that it benefits destro locks more than affliction. So by that logic, all tier pieces go to destro locks instead of affliction too, right?

I think the question we are discussing is not "what is the preferred raid-specc" but it´s "what is the preferred (best?) raidspecc at what stage of raiding?"

For early to raiding(karazhan, gruul, magteridhon, and early ssc) affliction reigns surpreme due to surpression.

For mid to end raiding you have multiple choices between deep affliction (UA 41/0/20), Affliction with ruin if you have got enough crit (40/0/21) and of course once you got 2 pieces of the t5-set you can go raid-demo (6/44/11) which is in my experience and opinion the heaviest dps hitter before you get t6 equipment.

Which bring us into end game raiding-farming, which means you are farming for the end-game gear and already have some of it (t6), than destro will be the best specc.

guess you are using some odd damage meters, than.

Destro isn´t viable as long as you ain´t somewhere around 170+ hit, at leas 1000spelldmg and around 20% crit untalented. Show me how you get that stuff together in early t5. Where a descent UA played lock would´t own a (at that stage) wannabe destro-lock.

Non-crit Sbolts as destruction-specced warlock in pre/end t5 content are pathetic and the items will just not be available to have decent (hit/+dmg/crit) destro stats to sustain constantly high dps. Of course you can always have a crit-streak, but other than that you´ll lose massive dps compare do UA or Demo.

Edited, Feb 5th 2008 2:16pm by Oakenwrath

Wolindrax, he trades out for the Prince cloak, hit trinket, and CE ring if I'm not mistaken for bosses. It might be CE ring + shards ring instead of the hit trinket, I can't remember for sure. No T5-level gear except for the belt (available without ever raiding), shoulders, boots.

EDIT: And Bane, he's at the gear level where destro is barely better dps than UA but he got pissed off at getting constantly killed on Leo. Those two locks never place lower than 5th, and are more often than not first and second.

Edited, Feb 5th 2008 1:22pm by lsfreak