Aye pretty much says it self.
Whats to prefer here? Say 17 spell haste or 17 crit? as destro ofc for pve.
Plz only answer if you are doing ssc or above :)
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Spell haste vs crit?Follow
as far as i understood spellhaste breaks as around 14-15% (spellhaste) even with +spellcrit.
What do you mean about that?
I dont know anything at all about spellhaste tbh :/ And im a CL hehe
I dont know anything at all about spellhaste tbh :/ And im a CL hehe
spell haste > crit until you get to roughly 40-50% spell haste, unluckily it's not possible to get that high with the current gear, 21% is the current 'cap' due to lack of gear. so yeah. collect haste over crit, haste over +dmg too. +hit comes first until you get to 202 hit though.
Basic gear choices (see below)
Spell hit > Spell Haste /Spell damage / Crit.
Spell haste rating largely depends on the spells you use. Destruction warlocks will favor it most, affliction ones will like it the least.
Spell crit is only useful if you have ISB (which, however, all raiding warlocks should). Even then, the high amount of rating required for one crit % make it worth less than the other ratings.
Rating vs ratio rates:
22.1 crit rating is 1% crit
15.77 haste rating is 1% extra casting speed.
12.6 hit rating is 1% hit
This is copied directly from the EJ thread.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-warlock_pve_raiding_compendium/
If you still don't understand it, spell hit is a priority until you reach 202 spell hit. Spell haste is the next priority, then spell damage, and finally spell crit. On my warlock I have one piece of haste gear (the necklace from Zul'jin from ZA), which I think is 27ish haste. My shadowbolt goes from 2.5 to 2.47. While it seems small, it adds up a LOT. If I cast 100 shadowbolts without haste, that's 250 seconds. If I cast 100 shadowbolts with the spell haste, that's 247 seconds. So for every 100 shadowbolts I cast, I get another instant one without global cooldown.
Spell hit > Spell Haste /Spell damage / Crit.
Spell haste rating largely depends on the spells you use. Destruction warlocks will favor it most, affliction ones will like it the least.
Spell crit is only useful if you have ISB (which, however, all raiding warlocks should). Even then, the high amount of rating required for one crit % make it worth less than the other ratings.
Rating vs ratio rates:
22.1 crit rating is 1% crit
15.77 haste rating is 1% extra casting speed.
12.6 hit rating is 1% hit
This is copied directly from the EJ thread.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-warlock_pve_raiding_compendium/
If you still don't understand it, spell hit is a priority until you reach 202 spell hit. Spell haste is the next priority, then spell damage, and finally spell crit. On my warlock I have one piece of haste gear (the necklace from Zul'jin from ZA), which I think is 27ish haste. My shadowbolt goes from 2.5 to 2.47. While it seems small, it adds up a LOT. If I cast 100 shadowbolts without haste, that's 250 seconds. If I cast 100 shadowbolts with the spell haste, that's 247 seconds. So for every 100 shadowbolts I cast, I get another instant one without global cooldown.
another way to look at it. is through using the warlock dps spreadsheet at http://www.leulier.com/
through inputing different talent specs and different gear levels into this you can come to the end conclusion that 'generally'
+hit > +haste > +dmg > crit for every warlock spec. BUT some specs do have a 'minimum' level for each before that spec can become viable over other specs
for afliction spec. there's no minimum for any stat. it is the starter raiding spec. it is also a good endgame raiding spec if you enjoy doing a bit less dps at the bonus of a massive utility increase.
for demo specs
well no real reason to spec this in raiding, it sucks regardless. but if you do. it has really only a few requirements.
2set from T5
about 150+ +hit (imo, no real figures to back this. never bothered doing the theory on it 'cos the spec sucks)
1000+dmg min to help increase your pets damage to a decent amount
`
for dest specs
there's quite a few minimums for this spec
1. minimum 20% crit rate inc. devestastation, 25% being a more prefered minimum but generally 'cos it's a safer bet if you're not at the hit cap
2. minimum 170 +hit
3. minimum 8k hp and mana before buffs. otherwise you're lifetapping to often and decreasing dps to much due to it
4. minimum 1000 +dmg
through inputing different talent specs and different gear levels into this you can come to the end conclusion that 'generally'
+hit > +haste > +dmg > crit for every warlock spec. BUT some specs do have a 'minimum' level for each before that spec can become viable over other specs
for afliction spec. there's no minimum for any stat. it is the starter raiding spec. it is also a good endgame raiding spec if you enjoy doing a bit less dps at the bonus of a massive utility increase.
for demo specs
well no real reason to spec this in raiding, it sucks regardless. but if you do. it has really only a few requirements.
2set from T5
about 150+ +hit (imo, no real figures to back this. never bothered doing the theory on it 'cos the spec sucks)
1000+dmg min to help increase your pets damage to a decent amount
`
for dest specs
there's quite a few minimums for this spec
1. minimum 20% crit rate inc. devestastation, 25% being a more prefered minimum but generally 'cos it's a safer bet if you're not at the hit cap
2. minimum 170 +hit
3. minimum 8k hp and mana before buffs. otherwise you're lifetapping to often and decreasing dps to much due to it
4. minimum 1000 +dmg
Quote:
for demo specs
well no real reason to spec this in raiding, it sucks regardless. but if you do. it has really only a few requirements.
2set from T5
about 150+ +hit (imo, no real figures to back this. never bothered doing the theory on it 'cos the spec sucks)
1000+dmg min to help increase your pets damage to a decent amount
written by someone who hasn´t got a clue.
I´am sorry jen, never thought you´d be that short-sighted.
Quote:
If I cast 100 shadowbolts without haste, that's 250 seconds. If I cast 100 shadowbolts with the spell haste, that's 247 seconds. So for every 100 shadowbolts I cast, I get another instant one without global cooldown.
250 seconds is roughly 4minutes...our fights usually don´t last longer than 6-8 minutes...that would be 2 extra shadowbolts if you do not have to reposition yourself and if you do not have to do other stuff during different phases.
I think i´d rather got for the +17 spelldmg instead. I am sure that at a point where your +hit and +spelldmg is fine you can aim for +spellhaste, but having just a piece or two might not be worth it.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 9:11am by Oakenwrath
haste is one of those stats that only really becomes worthwhile with higher stats, even if the maths says otherwise. get to 5% haste (about 80-90 haste) you'll notice a difference then. get to 10% and you'll notice it even more.
also sethy. i may not have raided as a demo spec, but as you may know, my 'guesses' are based on a massive background knowledge of the class and game. demo spec is
1. the worst spec out of the 3 main viable for us locks. been proven plenty of times by the theorycrafting gurus
2. more heavily reliant on +hit than an afliction build but less than a dest for 2 reasons.
i) the pet currently doesn't scale with our +hit, so his % damage of our damage isn't going to vary much
ii) chances are you'll have at least improved corruption, so you may have a few points in suppression too, so leading to a slightly less 'minimum' hit rate
3. the +dmg thing and the pet. well for starters. the pet does pretty pathetic damage and his attacks don't scale well with attack power, so firstly you need to at least get his damage up to a slightly viable amount. so +1000dmg is a nice starting point and more than likely to have once you get 2set T5.
I definately 'don't have a clue'. just 'cos i haven't raided as the spec doesn't mean i haven't checked it out. heck i've never raided as any type of healer or melee dps but i can definately tell you what stats they need most and create completely suitable talent builds. heck i've found that i know more about raiding mages than most mages and i've never played that either.
also sethy. i may not have raided as a demo spec, but as you may know, my 'guesses' are based on a massive background knowledge of the class and game. demo spec is
1. the worst spec out of the 3 main viable for us locks. been proven plenty of times by the theorycrafting gurus
2. more heavily reliant on +hit than an afliction build but less than a dest for 2 reasons.
i) the pet currently doesn't scale with our +hit, so his % damage of our damage isn't going to vary much
ii) chances are you'll have at least improved corruption, so you may have a few points in suppression too, so leading to a slightly less 'minimum' hit rate
3. the +dmg thing and the pet. well for starters. the pet does pretty pathetic damage and his attacks don't scale well with attack power, so firstly you need to at least get his damage up to a slightly viable amount. so +1000dmg is a nice starting point and more than likely to have once you get 2set T5.
I definately 'don't have a clue'. just 'cos i haven't raided as the spec doesn't mean i haven't checked it out. heck i've never raided as any type of healer or melee dps but i can definately tell you what stats they need most and create completely suitable talent builds. heck i've found that i know more about raiding mages than most mages and i've never played that either.
but please man...try it out, or get some info about it, there is really a great thread on it over at warlocks den. the author is through t6 content and still tops dmg-meters at 90% of the bosses.
about spellhaste, yeah that´s what i thought so as well, you´ll nee a min. amount of it before it makes a difference before you can actually sacrifice other stats for it.
about spellhaste, yeah that´s what i thought so as well, you´ll nee a min. amount of it before it makes a difference before you can actually sacrifice other stats for it.
everything is situational and you really think i haven't read up on it? you really think i'm stupid enough to judge a spec choice without at least investigating it?
anyways the 'toping dps meters' arguement is a flawed one to start with. i'm in a new guild that raids hjal/bt. I top the dps meters above the other locks. YET they all out gear me? want to know why i beat them? because i know more about the class and so i use the correct spell rotation. all the other 0/21/40 locks in my guild just purely do their curse + SB. I include a dot in the equation and hey presto. I win the dps race.
now yes, there will be the odd boss where felguard MAY beat afliction or dest.. but otherwise it won't. on the average boss, the pet becomes a liablility and generally can't dps to its fullest.
and finally. all the major dps comparisons have been done through complex theorycrafting. giving each spec equal gear and a scenario where they can dps constantly without movement and through the 1000s of tests done in these situations 0/21/40 > 41/0/20 > 9/41/11. now yes, "these arn't real situations" thankfully wow isn't a comlicated game so everything except movement due to boss abilities can be calculated. once you take into account movement due to boss abilities the result is that the gap between dest and afliction gets smaller and the gap between afliction and demo doesn't change.
the author of the warlocks den is obivously a good player and that alone is most likely the reason why he's top dps as demo. skill > gear & spec (i.e. a great player can make any spec work, but if he had 1 goal to provide top dps he would be dest spec)
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 2:55pm by Jenovaomega
anyways the 'toping dps meters' arguement is a flawed one to start with. i'm in a new guild that raids hjal/bt. I top the dps meters above the other locks. YET they all out gear me? want to know why i beat them? because i know more about the class and so i use the correct spell rotation. all the other 0/21/40 locks in my guild just purely do their curse + SB. I include a dot in the equation and hey presto. I win the dps race.
now yes, there will be the odd boss where felguard MAY beat afliction or dest.. but otherwise it won't. on the average boss, the pet becomes a liablility and generally can't dps to its fullest.
and finally. all the major dps comparisons have been done through complex theorycrafting. giving each spec equal gear and a scenario where they can dps constantly without movement and through the 1000s of tests done in these situations 0/21/40 > 41/0/20 > 9/41/11. now yes, "these arn't real situations" thankfully wow isn't a comlicated game so everything except movement due to boss abilities can be calculated. once you take into account movement due to boss abilities the result is that the gap between dest and afliction gets smaller and the gap between afliction and demo doesn't change.
the author of the warlocks den is obivously a good player and that alone is most likely the reason why he's top dps as demo. skill > gear & spec (i.e. a great player can make any spec work, but if he had 1 goal to provide top dps he would be dest spec)
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 2:55pm by Jenovaomega
i am so disapointet that you said the specc sucks.
i am destro as we speak for the a´lar bossfight, and there are very few bosses (a´lar only and haven´t tried kael talas) where demonology won´t beat destro in ssc/tk content.
Being specced destro my sbolts crit at around 7k my CoD does around 10k (no trinkets)
Being specced Demo my sbolts crit at 5k, while my Immolate and my Corruption tick away and my felguard does 700dmg normal/cleave(he crits often as well). My CoD explodes at roughly 12k+.
Now you do the math. This is of course only true for my gear, but from my perspective and anyone being similar geared demonology will beat destros **** by far in ssc/tk content.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 3:51pm by Oakenwrath
i am destro as we speak for the a´lar bossfight, and there are very few bosses (a´lar only and haven´t tried kael talas) where demonology won´t beat destro in ssc/tk content.
Being specced destro my sbolts crit at around 7k my CoD does around 10k (no trinkets)
Being specced Demo my sbolts crit at 5k, while my Immolate and my Corruption tick away and my felguard does 700dmg normal/cleave(he crits often as well). My CoD explodes at roughly 12k+.
Now you do the math. This is of course only true for my gear, but from my perspective and anyone being similar geared demonology will beat destros **** by far in ssc/tk content.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 3:51pm by Oakenwrath
so oaken. does this mean you don't use corruption/immolate as dest? if so then that's why you're doing worse off. and you may be disappointed, but remember. the 100s of other REAL theorycrafters side with me and the 1000s of other warlocks who've tried doing a tiny bit of REAL comparison have come to the same conclusion. the spec does do less damage. live with it. also no offence, but did you know there's no CoD varience between all 3 specs. i average 12k CoDs in raids and i'm fair from having a massive amount of +dmg. I've seen 12k CoDs as afliction spec with my gear and i'm pretty certain i'll see them as demo too
2ndly. your pet doesn't crit often. the felguard has a crit rate of about 10%, 13% at best unless you're in a feral druid group... o.0, also get a wowwebstats recording of a run and then maybe i'll believe that the felguard NORMAL MELEES for 700 (last i knew it was about 400-600 in a raid) with a cleave of about 700-900.
p.s. your maths suck
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 6:31pm by Jenovaomega
2ndly. your pet doesn't crit often. the felguard has a crit rate of about 10%, 13% at best unless you're in a feral druid group... o.0, also get a wowwebstats recording of a run and then maybe i'll believe that the felguard NORMAL MELEES for 700 (last i knew it was about 400-600 in a raid) with a cleave of about 700-900.
p.s. your maths suck
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 6:31pm by Jenovaomega
oh really? no CoD variance? i´d say average 1250-1300 +shadowdamage for the ssc/tk raider vs. my 1550 as demo...no differnce in CoD dmg...yeah right
i´ll whoop up some numbers tomorrow. While you crunch your numbers i do the real thing ingame and i tell you the difference is more than noticeable.
i´ll whoop up some numbers tomorrow. While you crunch your numbers i do the real thing ingame and i tell you the difference is more than noticeable.
CoD 200% +dmg modifier
you as demo
1500 +dmg leads to 4200+3000 = 7000 * 1.1 = 7.7k on your own
me as dest
1300 +dmg leads to 4200+2600 = 6800 *1.15 = 7.82k damage
I think you'll find mine does more damage
afliction (not quite sure how amp.curse affects CoD, so got 2 answers here)
1300+dmg leads to 4200+2600 = 6800 *1.1 = 7480 per CoD. BUT 1 in every 3 CoD has 50% damage bonus. SOOOO
7480+7480+(7480*1.5) / 3 = 8727 (WRONG FIGURES)
OR
7480+7480+(7480+[4200*0.5]) / 3 = 8180 (CORRECT FIGURES)
so yeah, actually as demo your CoD is the worst of the lot and amp curse is a pretty big increase to the average CoD.
oh, if you're going to say "you took 50 spell damage from me" well that's because being demo spec doesn't provide that much of a spell damage variation due to demonic knowledge, I know. i pvp as demo and i've had to raid as it a few times due to lack of gold to respec so i know about the difference the buffs make.
so yeah. your maths suck
post edit
forgot to mention. i didn't run ISB into the equation as in theory it should affect all 3 specs the same amount if you have a dest spec in the raid. though in reality it's more of a luck factor if ISB will be up when CoD pops. though i bet if you done the maths you'll find ISB is more likely to be up at the right time for a dest lock than any others, so we could add maybe an extra 100 dmg to a dest spec in the long run
POST EDIT(2)
found out. amp curse works before +dmg. so my 2nd figures are right for afliction. 1st is wrong
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 8:29pm by Jenovaomega
you as demo
1500 +dmg leads to 4200+3000 = 7000 * 1.1 = 7.7k on your own
me as dest
1300 +dmg leads to 4200+2600 = 6800 *1.15 = 7.82k damage
I think you'll find mine does more damage
afliction (not quite sure how amp.curse affects CoD, so got 2 answers here)
1300+dmg leads to 4200+2600 = 6800 *1.1 = 7480 per CoD. BUT 1 in every 3 CoD has 50% damage bonus. SOOOO
7480+7480+(7480*1.5) / 3 = 8727 (WRONG FIGURES)
OR
7480+7480+(7480+[4200*0.5]) / 3 = 8180 (CORRECT FIGURES)
so yeah, actually as demo your CoD is the worst of the lot and amp curse is a pretty big increase to the average CoD.
oh, if you're going to say "you took 50 spell damage from me" well that's because being demo spec doesn't provide that much of a spell damage variation due to demonic knowledge, I know. i pvp as demo and i've had to raid as it a few times due to lack of gold to respec so i know about the difference the buffs make.
so yeah. your maths suck
post edit
forgot to mention. i didn't run ISB into the equation as in theory it should affect all 3 specs the same amount if you have a dest spec in the raid. though in reality it's more of a luck factor if ISB will be up when CoD pops. though i bet if you done the maths you'll find ISB is more likely to be up at the right time for a dest lock than any others, so we could add maybe an extra 100 dmg to a dest spec in the long run
POST EDIT(2)
found out. amp curse works before +dmg. so my 2nd figures are right for afliction. 1st is wrong
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 8:29pm by Jenovaomega
It's been said before, but Demo is a T5 spec. The boss fights all tend to support it, the gear is there (esp. the 2-piece) and once you hit T6 you can't really gear "properly" for Demo. Destro benefits noticeably more from the T6 gear than Demo or Afflic do, and so it becomes the default spec. Demo is usually a better call in T5 than Destro is.
Neither of you are right, so settle down.
Neither of you are right, so settle down.
demo has tons of passive bonuses outside of felguard.
and unless they changed it since last year, amplify curse does not affect doom
and unless they changed it since last year, amplify curse does not affect doom
guka. actually log onto your warlock and READ the amplify curse talent. it affects CoD
also just because you get the voidstar talisman and the T5 2set bonus is for demo does NOT mean it's 'demo' gear or demo instances etc... there is NO boss which benefits demo over afliction or dest. and if you feel like saying "what about leo or any other boss where a warlock tanks" well the main word in that sentance is TANK not DPS.
your view oaken, is just like every other blind lock.
OOJJJ!JJHHHH!H!HHHHH, look at dest. it has fire talents so it MUST be a fire spec
OOOHHHHHH look, if you're shadow dest it has not dot increasing talents and you have to actually CAST corruption. ZOMGMTGMGMM!!!! i'm not doing that.
OHHHH!H!HH!H!HHHH voidstar talisman drops from a raid instance, it MUST be a raid trinket.. it can't be only a pvp trinket (and no offence, but it IS only a pvp trinket. even as dest spec there's better trinket choices)
OHH!H!H!H zoimg pwnijustwetmyself OOH!H! T5 2set bonus is for demo. it must be purely for demo, heck i completely forgot there's a 4set bonus that is multi spec.
etc.
also just because you get the voidstar talisman and the T5 2set bonus is for demo does NOT mean it's 'demo' gear or demo instances etc... there is NO boss which benefits demo over afliction or dest. and if you feel like saying "what about leo or any other boss where a warlock tanks" well the main word in that sentance is TANK not DPS.
your view oaken, is just like every other blind lock.
OOJJJ!JJHHHH!H!HHHHH, look at dest. it has fire talents so it MUST be a fire spec
OOOHHHHHH look, if you're shadow dest it has not dot increasing talents and you have to actually CAST corruption. ZOMGMTGMGMM!!!! i'm not doing that.
OHHHH!H!HH!H!HHHH voidstar talisman drops from a raid instance, it MUST be a raid trinket.. it can't be only a pvp trinket (and no offence, but it IS only a pvp trinket. even as dest spec there's better trinket choices)
OHH!H!H!H zoimg pwnijustwetmyself OOH!H! T5 2set bonus is for demo. it must be purely for demo, heck i completely forgot there's a 4set bonus that is multi spec.
etc.
dear jenova (stan), why are you so angry?
Like i play fire...
Everytime you do not crit with a destructionbuild you´ll lose massive damge if you compare directly with a demo-specc.
feel free to misinform people with your theorycrafting.
bossfights are different from your numbers. Our dmg.meter prooves
me right on every single bossfight give a take a percent, but i am usually 2-3% above the entire raid.
your view jenova
ooooooooooooooohhhhhhh i do so much theorycrafting, but i cannot play demo-specc.
Like i play fire...
Everytime you do not crit with a destructionbuild you´ll lose massive damge if you compare directly with a demo-specc.
feel free to misinform people with your theorycrafting.
bossfights are different from your numbers. Our dmg.meter prooves
me right on every single bossfight give a take a percent, but i am usually 2-3% above the entire raid.
your view jenova
ooooooooooooooohhhhhhh i do so much theorycrafting, but i cannot play demo-specc.
Are you both two, or did I miss the memo?
oaken. explain HOW i loose so much damage everytime i don't crit?
for starters, you may have an additional 200 spell damage due to DK. but due to SnF, if i have anything over 1000 +dmg then i actually have MORE spell damage than you when it comes to how much is being added to shadowbolt. and then there's the extra 15% damage i get on SB compared to your 10%. so from the outset my SBs will be hitting for anything from 500-1000 damage more than yours, which accounts for every melee swing your pet does. (pet melee swing is on a 2sec timer)
then every time i crit which averaged over a whole boss/raid is 1/4-1/3 times(crit rate of 26% self buffed. in a raid i'm at 31-37% depending on raid composition) will more than make up for the damage from cleave
sadly oaken. you suck at maths and you're stubborn because you want to believe you're right. now there's nothing wrong with wanting to spec demo, or fire dest or any of the other lower dps specs if you enjoy them, aslong as you reconnise that the specs are worse than 0/21/40 for DPS
in the end you're simply arguing 'cos someone said you're wrong, sadly you've yet to provide a single bit of evidence as to you being right while i've provided evidence everytime. remember, i'm the lock king on here. call me an arrogant ****, stubborn etc... but you know you can't disagree when it comes to the fact that i'm right about warlocks.
for starters, you may have an additional 200 spell damage due to DK. but due to SnF, if i have anything over 1000 +dmg then i actually have MORE spell damage than you when it comes to how much is being added to shadowbolt. and then there's the extra 15% damage i get on SB compared to your 10%. so from the outset my SBs will be hitting for anything from 500-1000 damage more than yours, which accounts for every melee swing your pet does. (pet melee swing is on a 2sec timer)
then every time i crit which averaged over a whole boss/raid is 1/4-1/3 times(crit rate of 26% self buffed. in a raid i'm at 31-37% depending on raid composition) will more than make up for the damage from cleave
sadly oaken. you suck at maths and you're stubborn because you want to believe you're right. now there's nothing wrong with wanting to spec demo, or fire dest or any of the other lower dps specs if you enjoy them, aslong as you reconnise that the specs are worse than 0/21/40 for DPS
in the end you're simply arguing 'cos someone said you're wrong, sadly you've yet to provide a single bit of evidence as to you being right while i've provided evidence everytime. remember, i'm the lock king on here. call me an arrogant ****, stubborn etc... but you know you can't disagree when it comes to the fact that i'm right about warlocks.
I´ll call you an ignorant destro-fanboy.
Everytime you dare to avoid an arcane orb, you are sent to watery tomb, you jump of an island, you move away from someone with static charge or simply have to readjust your position my felguard is chipping away on the boss.
Everytime you dare to cast Corruption you will lose half a second compared to demo-build...that quickly adds up to *Bling Bling* $$$Sbolts$$$.
Evertime you are low on health for any reason and you get hit by dmg i can mitigate alot better with my Soul Link
Everytime you Life Tap be assured i get shedloads more mana than you due my much higher spelldmg and +10% extra.
Speaking of crit, well i sometimes have a lazer0wl or shaman in my grp as well...
Theory <> Practice
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:55pm by Oakenwrath
Everytime you dare to avoid an arcane orb, you are sent to watery tomb, you jump of an island, you move away from someone with static charge or simply have to readjust your position my felguard is chipping away on the boss.
Everytime you dare to cast Corruption you will lose half a second compared to demo-build...that quickly adds up to *Bling Bling* $$$Sbolts$$$.
Evertime you are low on health for any reason and you get hit by dmg i can mitigate alot better with my Soul Link
Everytime you Life Tap be assured i get shedloads more mana than you due my much higher spelldmg and +10% extra.
Speaking of crit, well i sometimes have a lazer0wl or shaman in my grp as well...
Theory <> Practice
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:55pm by Oakenwrath
k for starters i'm not a 'destrofan boy' i will spec whatever spec is proven to be the top dps spec, which dest is
you do know, that when watery tombed your pet can actually despawn because of how far away you can be, you do realise that with voidreaver if you stand in range for the aoe you don't have to move.
i only lifetap whenever i can't dps (a.k.a moving to avoid stuff / boss submerges / changes element etc..) my dest spells cost 5% less mana than yours and the 0.5 extra cast time on corruption is getting made up by my spell haste (currently corruption is a 0.9sec cast, shadowbolt is 2.33sec), also if there's a fire mage in the raid, then immolate is more beneficial than corruption as a shadow dest lock, so no worries about using corruption there.
tbh, this arguement is getting rediculous. so i've chucked my stats as both dest spec and demo spec into the latest warlock dps spreadsheet from http://www.leulier.com/ and this is the end result.
Dest DPS 1667.72
demo DPS 1556.17
there's a good 100 difference with the same gear. go try it yourself if you want.
these are also all presuming we can both dps constantly. sadly your pet is likely to die on most bosses due to their aoes / soul-link damage and we both have to move as much as each other generally. so end result is that the 250dps from the pet will be more around 150-200 depending on boss.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:03pm by Jenovaomega
you do know, that when watery tombed your pet can actually despawn because of how far away you can be, you do realise that with voidreaver if you stand in range for the aoe you don't have to move.
i only lifetap whenever i can't dps (a.k.a moving to avoid stuff / boss submerges / changes element etc..) my dest spells cost 5% less mana than yours and the 0.5 extra cast time on corruption is getting made up by my spell haste (currently corruption is a 0.9sec cast, shadowbolt is 2.33sec), also if there's a fire mage in the raid, then immolate is more beneficial than corruption as a shadow dest lock, so no worries about using corruption there.
tbh, this arguement is getting rediculous. so i've chucked my stats as both dest spec and demo spec into the latest warlock dps spreadsheet from http://www.leulier.com/ and this is the end result.
Dest DPS 1667.72
demo DPS 1556.17
there's a good 100 difference with the same gear. go try it yourself if you want.
these are also all presuming we can both dps constantly. sadly your pet is likely to die on most bosses due to their aoes / soul-link damage and we both have to move as much as each other generally. so end result is that the 250dps from the pet will be more around 150-200 depending on boss.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:03pm by Jenovaomega
i see so you have got +spellhit near max crit at around 31% enough spelldamge and enough spellhaste to get half a second every 18 seconds? pretty good.
Sadly my pet dies on the rarest occasions.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:29pm by Oakenwrath
Sadly my pet dies on the rarest occasions.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:29pm by Oakenwrath
i have 7.17% spell haste, that's like 130 rating. hit cap. 26% crit. also as i predicted, you'd ignore the figures. all i done was swap the talent builds within the document and the dps went down over 100 as you can see. so in other words. i was right. you were wrong.
L2Lock
L2Lock
like a static spreadsheet can even get remotely close to any real figures.
you are so in love with numbers that you completly ignore the truth, that it ain´t even funny.
I frequently look at your armoryprofile and never see you in gear remotely close to the stats you describe.
funny how you chop 50+dmg from me off and you assume that you got 1300+shadowdmg
in your CoD calculations.
i´d really like to see you boss-equip.
you claim 202 hit
you are 116 points short according to your armory
you claim (and i assumed) 1300 spelldmg
thats a -285dmg according to your armory
(of course lets assume felarmor +100, flask +80, superior wizard oil +42
and buffood +23) that a total of 245 so just 40 short here
you claim 130 spellhaste
you are 78 points short of spellhaste according to your armory.
funny how we compare my real stats vs. your imaginary stats.
i am right and you are full of it.
or even better how about we do some wws comparison on ssc bosses.
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 8:19am by Oakenwrath
you are so in love with numbers that you completly ignore the truth, that it ain´t even funny.
I frequently look at your armoryprofile and never see you in gear remotely close to the stats you describe.
funny how you chop 50+dmg from me off and you assume that you got 1300+shadowdmg
in your CoD calculations.
i´d really like to see you boss-equip.
you claim 202 hit
you are 116 points short according to your armory
you claim (and i assumed) 1300 spelldmg
thats a -285dmg according to your armory
(of course lets assume felarmor +100, flask +80, superior wizard oil +42
and buffood +23) that a total of 245 so just 40 short here
you claim 130 spellhaste
you are 78 points short of spellhaste according to your armory.
funny how we compare my real stats vs. your imaginary stats.
i am right and you are full of it.
or even better how about we do some wws comparison on ssc bosses.
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 8:19am by Oakenwrath
oaken. i've said COUNTLESS times that I have more than 1 set of gear. the gear you see me in on a day to day basis is either my pvp gear OR my TRASH MOB GEAR. a.k.a high dmg and crit, low hit as all you need for trash mobs is roughly 60-70 +hit.
and oaken, i chopped the figures off to make them easier to do in my head AND because you said most other locks had like 300-350 less spelldamage than you when in reality it's about 200, which is where i got the 1300 figure from.
you're getting desperate here. you're creating strawman arguements to try and deface the way i look. well it's not going to work. good loosers admit they're wrong once they know they've lost. you're just becoming pathetic
and oaken, i chopped the figures off to make them easier to do in my head AND because you said most other locks had like 300-350 less spelldamage than you when in reality it's about 200, which is where i got the 1300 figure from.
you're getting desperate here. you're creating strawman arguements to try and deface the way i look. well it's not going to work. good loosers admit they're wrong once they know they've lost. you're just becoming pathetic
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