forgive a warrior trolling on the hunter forums, but this topic has always annoyed and puzzled me. My hunter alt is only in his 20's, but I have played with enough hunters on my warrior main to notice how many hunters either complain or refuse outright when asked to trap ranged/caster mobs. I realize that it's not incredibly easy to ice trap something that prefers to stay put and shoot at you, but even without silencing shot I believe a hunter should still be able to either run his mark far back enough, and then run up to it and trap it, or use the pet to semi-body pull it or hold it in one spot to be trapped.
I realize that other forms of cc are more easily applied than ice trap, but when the situation calls for it, shouldn't any hunter worth his salt be able to trap a ranged/caster mob? Should I just find better hunters to group with, or am I asking for too much?
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trapping castersFollow
its true that we can ofc trap casters even without silence shot, all thats needed is either somewher to hide from line of sight or just run back far enough.
but as you say its abit more trouble for us than trapping melee mobs and most times i known hunters whine about it has been because they have gotten a caster to trap and the say mage gets the melee to sheep.
the times its happens to me i just tell the marker to please give me a melee mob when possible and then were on our way
but as you say its abit more trouble for us than trapping melee mobs and most times i known hunters whine about it has been because they have gotten a caster to trap and the say mage gets the melee to sheep.
the times its happens to me i just tell the marker to please give me a melee mob when possible and then were on our way
Yes any hunter can trap casters, pain in the but but it can be done.
I hate it, but I still do it(some reason when I group with my friends I always get the caster, even if there is a MM hunter in the group). You just have to find LoS, if that isn't an option, you can run back the way you came to get out of casting range, which forces the mob to run forward, or you can run to the mob and place the trap.
One thing I do hate more than anything, is Damage Meter spammers. Lol I know what you're thinking "what the hell does a damage meter have to do with trapping casters?".
I've ran a couple regulars/heroics where people post the damage meters every 5 minutes or so, show boating their #1 on the chart. Of course you're #1, I just had to run a mile backwards to get this caster to come to my trap, then run a mile forward to get back into range, all the time you are sitting there Pew Pewing and you still only have me beat by 10k or so.
/rant
Lol.
Back on topic, it's not that hard, if it needs to get done, I can do it, If I had the choice I would choose not to. There are situation things to, like if we are running smoothly and downing things quick, and it's a regular instance(no way in hell I would do this on heroics), rather than trapping the caster I will simply put my pet on the mob intimidate and burn down the kill target. I can and could while I was leveling keep my pet alive long enough to down the two without needing heals from the healer. But like I said that is only situational.
I hate it, but I still do it(some reason when I group with my friends I always get the caster, even if there is a MM hunter in the group). You just have to find LoS, if that isn't an option, you can run back the way you came to get out of casting range, which forces the mob to run forward, or you can run to the mob and place the trap.
One thing I do hate more than anything, is Damage Meter spammers. Lol I know what you're thinking "what the hell does a damage meter have to do with trapping casters?".
I've ran a couple regulars/heroics where people post the damage meters every 5 minutes or so, show boating their #1 on the chart. Of course you're #1, I just had to run a mile backwards to get this caster to come to my trap, then run a mile forward to get back into range, all the time you are sitting there Pew Pewing and you still only have me beat by 10k or so.
/rant
Lol.
Back on topic, it's not that hard, if it needs to get done, I can do it, If I had the choice I would choose not to. There are situation things to, like if we are running smoothly and downing things quick, and it's a regular instance(no way in hell I would do this on heroics), rather than trapping the caster I will simply put my pet on the mob intimidate and burn down the kill target. I can and could while I was leveling keep my pet alive long enough to down the two without needing heals from the healer. But like I said that is only situational.
Its very well doable, but it sucks ***.
So since you tank, if there are more CCers let the mage take the casters and hunters get mobs that somewhat cooperate.
If it has to be done its no problem, but i have seen tanks telling me to trap the caster group after group while the mage got to sheep melee mobs.....
So since you tank, if there are more CCers let the mage take the casters and hunters get mobs that somewhat cooperate.
If it has to be done its no problem, but i have seen tanks telling me to trap the caster group after group while the mage got to sheep melee mobs.....
Aethien wrote:
If it has to be done its no problem, but i have seen tanks telling me to trap the caster group after group while the mage got to sheep melee mobs.....
i have done this in groups where my only other form of cc was seduce, the warlock was unable to keep the caster tightly controlled but the hunter's skill at cc was clearly superior compared to the other player and could be relied upon to keep his mark trapped.
I do it. I hate doing it but I do it. LoS works best but if it can't be done, I'll either back up/run away if it looks like it might be a long fight or just run up and drop a trap at it's feet if it'll be a short fight. I usually ask to only trap melee but if it's not an option I suck it up and deal with the annoyance. Not that big of a deal really.
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i have done this in groups where my only other form of cc was seduce, the warlock was unable to keep the caster tightly controlled but the hunter's skill at cc was clearly superior compared to the other player and could be relied upon to keep his mark trapped.
In this case it is completely acceptable. But be warned, their DPS will suffer for it so make sure you stop any BS with people who like to LOL at others for not being #1 on damage.
Also Seduce is not nearly as reliable as Sheep, so this does happen a lot. However as soon as seduce is over the Succy is gonna get smacked pretty hard by the melee mob and probably will die. Just watch out for that.
Edited, Jan 9th 2008 12:49pm by HitashLevat
Oddly enough, I’ve not thought of this as an issue. I agree with everyone else that trapping casters is a pain the butt. However, I’ve just taken it as part of my job and dealt with it. I think this is mainly due to the fact that I’ve had the good fortune of always having the one doing the marking realize what’s involved and I’ve only gotten casters to trap if there was no other option.
If only Blizzard would give us a silence shot at the beginning of one of the trees. I’m not holding my breath, but it would be nice.
If only Blizzard would give us a silence shot at the beginning of one of the trees. I’m not holding my breath, but it would be nice.
Calabar wrote:
If only Blizzard would give us a silence shot at the beginning of one of the trees. I’m not holding my breath, but it would be nice.
If bliz did this I would respec to BM in a heart beat.
The biggest problem with trapping casters is not exactly because they stand in place and take forever to trap because you need to find LoS or run far enough away to have them follow you, it's because the only reliable way to do it is to run up to them and place it at their feet.
What that tactic does, is reliably trap them, but it drastically reduces the re-trapability because we haven't had time for our CD to come back before the mob comes out of trap (all but SV or clever trap specced hunters) and can sometimes put us too close to other group sin the instance that coud aggro us as we're running up to the casters, this problem can also be seen when running around trying LoS the caster or run far enough away to have them follow you.
In short, Hunters are able to do it, but it's just much faster, safer and easier for a mage to sheep a caster and the hunter to trap the melee.
What that tactic does, is reliably trap them, but it drastically reduces the re-trapability because we haven't had time for our CD to come back before the mob comes out of trap (all but SV or clever trap specced hunters) and can sometimes put us too close to other group sin the instance that coud aggro us as we're running up to the casters, this problem can also be seen when running around trying LoS the caster or run far enough away to have them follow you.
In short, Hunters are able to do it, but it's just much faster, safer and easier for a mage to sheep a caster and the hunter to trap the melee.
See if you are smart about it you won't run to the caster or ranger. You will drag them to you, and your CD will be up in time to trap again in case of an early break.
Not that hard. Just annoying.
Not that hard. Just annoying.
Katchii wrote:
What that tactic does, is reliably trap them, but it drastically reduces the re-trapability because we haven't had time for our CD to come back before the mob comes out of trap (all but SV or clever trap specced hunters) and can sometimes put us too close to other group sin the instance that coud aggro us as we're running up to the casters, this problem can also be seen when running around trying LoS the caster or run far enough away to have them follow you.
Best explanation anyone could have given. In order for us to reliably keep something CC'd we have to wait for our cooldowns. Pin-Point Trapping (as I call it) is easy to do, and it works, but unless you're SV or Clever Trap spec'd, your cooldown isn't going to have enough time to pop before the mobs break out of the trap.
*Before SV Spec*
Now personally speaking, I used to put the trap mid-way (about 20 yards away from the mob and myself closer if I can afford it without aggoring) and tell the tank to pull to the left or right of my trap, so that other mobs don't path into it as he's pulling (or I'm MDing it to him). I then back-up to maxed range and wait for the pull to be made, this way the mobs that he plans on tanking, or others plan to CC are at the opposite end, away from the path to my trap. I then proceed to hit the caster and gain aggro from maxed range, usually making the caster move just a little everytime to get to me and start casting. This way I reduce the amount of time it takes for him to get to my trap, and my cooldown is usually up by then. Therefor I can set another trap when I'm ready and be prepared.
This works best with Silencing Shot, as I mostly used this when pulling caster mobs (I've only ever been MM or SV, never BM =P). But even without, you can see how easy it would be to pull the mob over to your traps.
Biggest problem of course is communication with the group =P
*After SV Spec*
Now if it's something quick, and you know that your trapped mob will be next, I'll just run up to the Caster, use Scatter Shot Or Wyvern Sting, and plant a trap right on top of him. But I'm also SV spec'd and my traps last longer then most so I normally don't have the issue of retrapping before my cooldown is up.
*Note that if you use Wyvern Sting first, keep a close watch on the mob, and be sure to counter your Wyvern Sting's Dot affect with just a normal Scorpid Sting.
It also helps to skattershot the caster then run in and drop at trap at his feet, this is if theres no los spot or need cc quickly(or healer gets one shot).
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Quoted Text
Not that hard. Just annoying.
You can't do this to casters if you don't have Silencing Shot unless you run far enough away to get them to run after you or you let them cast at you until their mana runs out. This is the whole reason Hunters, normally, have problems trapping casters.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:16am by Katchii
Trapping casters sucks. Its a waste of valuable dps time and annoying enough to make you want to punt a baby. If you happen to have silencing shot its somewhat easier but its still way more trouble than its worth. Avoid it whenever possible.
6 posts
I do what has to be done. If there is no other CC in the group or they are waiting for their cooldown, I CC away.
As a Survival specced hunter I often have trouble finding groups (not many realize the damage output I can do and still keep myself alive). Aside from that ... when I do find a group and have to do CC, I put the caster on my extended freeze trap and a when they brake, put my Wyvern Sting on them, and if we arent' finished with the melees yet, my owl tanks them.
After that I tend to have proven my worth and is well accepted, being off-specced and laughed at.
Point is: if a hunter is needed to CC do it. Being reluctant b/c you are not created to CC is pointless, when you actually are able to.
Cereene, Hunter of Doomhammmer
As a Survival specced hunter I often have trouble finding groups (not many realize the damage output I can do and still keep myself alive). Aside from that ... when I do find a group and have to do CC, I put the caster on my extended freeze trap and a when they brake, put my Wyvern Sting on them, and if we arent' finished with the melees yet, my owl tanks them.
After that I tend to have proven my worth and is well accepted, being off-specced and laughed at.
Point is: if a hunter is needed to CC do it. Being reluctant b/c you are not created to CC is pointless, when you actually are able to.
Cereene, Hunter of Doomhammmer
This discussion isn't about whether or not it's possible, it's why Hunters don't like doing it and why a mage would be better CC for casters.
If Hunters were the only CC in a group, yeah we'd suck it up and take care of business, but if theres any form of caster CC (Mage, Warlock, Priest shackle) that could be used instead against a caster, a Hunter is going to try and get something else. NOT because we don't want to, it's because finding a more efficient caster trapper would be better for the group overall.
If Hunters were the only CC in a group, yeah we'd suck it up and take care of business, but if theres any form of caster CC (Mage, Warlock, Priest shackle) that could be used instead against a caster, a Hunter is going to try and get something else. NOT because we don't want to, it's because finding a more efficient caster trapper would be better for the group overall.
Dredeth. You are speced SV. When invited to a group you should almost always be expect to CC when needed. (obviously you can't trap mobs that are immune) Your speced for it so don't think the group doesn't want you to do that job.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:16pm by HitashLevat
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 3:16pm by HitashLevat
If I was running a heroic, and the tank expected me to trap a caster, while a more reliable form of CC was available, and CCing a melee mob, I'd find a new tank. Plain and simple.
I will trap a caster mob when the situation absolutely calls for it, but when there are better options for CCing a caster, I expect the tank, or whoever is marking to recognize it.
I will trap a caster mob when the situation absolutely calls for it, but when there are better options for CCing a caster, I expect the tank, or whoever is marking to recognize it.
Dredeth wrote:
...If there is no other CC in the group ...
I don't have an issue with trapping - in fact I'm damn good at it (thought probably not as good as I was when I had points in survival). The fact of the matter though, is that 8/10 times a group with a single CC isn't going to be successful anyway and as that sole CC extremely unreasonable things will be asked of you repeatedly ... like trapping casters.
Leave the group, save yourself the frustration and the repair bill.
EDIT: No CC with a Paladin tank is ok.
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 12:52pm by Timorith
Sure I can do it and if I'm the only available CC to do it I'll gladly do it.
However, if I'm doing it because someone is marking poorly or whatever I just see it as bad strategy. If I'm running around out of LOS or running up to a mob to trap it thats less DPS and therefore the mobs die slower and everyone suffers. If there is a shackle, sheep, sap etc.. available, better to use that on casters.
However, if I'm doing it because someone is marking poorly or whatever I just see it as bad strategy. If I'm running around out of LOS or running up to a mob to trap it thats less DPS and therefore the mobs die slower and everyone suffers. If there is a shackle, sheep, sap etc.. available, better to use that on casters.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
PPPbbbbfffhtt! :p
Sorry, couldn't resist. All the crap we MM hunters take kinda forces me to get even a bit.
Silencing Shot = Come to me sucker!
If done from extreme range you can down them before they even hit the trap and grab one of their buddies with a follow up shot.
Pulling a caster into a trap without silencing shot isn't so easy but is do-able. I've had to pull 2 casters at once before. It's just backing a bit to pull them into the trap. You're not at max DPS but CC, by definition is a defensive posture so anyone crowing about their DPS rating is a jerk anyways. Hunters are more than DPS. I'll never feel bad about doing my job.
Now that I've ding'd 70, Arena central and time for a variant of Aethiens PvP build... heh heh heh.
Can't pull player casters with Silencing Shot darn it... and here I was gloating. Ah well. :)
PPPbbbbfffhtt! :p
Sorry, couldn't resist. All the crap we MM hunters take kinda forces me to get even a bit.
Silencing Shot = Come to me sucker!
If done from extreme range you can down them before they even hit the trap and grab one of their buddies with a follow up shot.
Pulling a caster into a trap without silencing shot isn't so easy but is do-able. I've had to pull 2 casters at once before. It's just backing a bit to pull them into the trap. You're not at max DPS but CC, by definition is a defensive posture so anyone crowing about their DPS rating is a jerk anyways. Hunters are more than DPS. I'll never feel bad about doing my job.
Now that I've ding'd 70, Arena central and time for a variant of Aethiens PvP build... heh heh heh.
Can't pull player casters with Silencing Shot darn it... and here I was gloating. Ah well. :)
I know it's not the main point of this thread, but on the topic of Succubus Seducing a target, the succubus should not be getting bashed by the seduce target when it breaks.
A caster mob can be re-seduced before getting a cast off most of the time, and a melee mob will be running towards the warlock (who of course hit it with a searing pain just before the initial seduce to keep hate off the pet) and can be trapped easily before getting to him/her.
When playing my druid, preference is that mage always gets a caster (easier for them to chain sheep something that's going to stand there and cast back than being intercepted/attacked/whatever), hunter gets a melee, warlock and rogue get whatever, and healers/casters are taken out first.
Obviously there are special circumstances for come pulls, but it works as a standard game plan.
A caster mob can be re-seduced before getting a cast off most of the time, and a melee mob will be running towards the warlock (who of course hit it with a searing pain just before the initial seduce to keep hate off the pet) and can be trapped easily before getting to him/her.
When playing my druid, preference is that mage always gets a caster (easier for them to chain sheep something that's going to stand there and cast back than being intercepted/attacked/whatever), hunter gets a melee, warlock and rogue get whatever, and healers/casters are taken out first.
Obviously there are special circumstances for come pulls, but it works as a standard game plan.
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