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Downranking and mathFollow

#1 Jan 09 2008 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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There are two different formulas for downranking that are available on wowwiki. The first includes 2 parts if the spell can be learned under level 20, which has the following formula (note that this is multiplactive to the cast time formula):
Quote:

If the character is above the level at which the next rank of the spell can be learned + 5, then
( (Level at which next rank of skill can be learned) + 5 ) / Player Level ) )
is the penalty.
If below level 20, there is a further penalty (multiplactive) of
( 20 - Level the Spell is Learned ) * 0.0375
Which to figure out a multiplier, you would subtract the above number from 1.


The other method is simpler, as it's only one step (again, multiplicative with the cast time formula):
Quote:

If you are over 11 levels higher than the level you can learn the spell, then:
( (Level at which you learn the Spell) + 11 ) / Character Level = Coefficient


My problem with both of these is that from my understanding, these formulas were supposed to make it so that rank 1 of a spell, such as FoL, would be less mana efficient than higher ranks. The highest rank may not be the most mana efficient, but you weren't supposed to see rank 1 as the highest either. The problem is, when I put the first formula in, rank 1 has the highest HPM with 241 +heal, and in the second formula rank 1 FoL is the highest HPM with 321 +heal.
HL then, under the first formula is only better than max rank HL if you have about 21500 +heal (which I doubt you'd have), but under the second formula it's 607 +heal.
I don't know if I'm doing my math wrong, or if the mana efficiency really is what I'm saying. I guess in order to figure this out what I need is some numbers to work with...i.e. +heal and min/max ranges people are hitting with different ranks. Bah, too bad my pally isn't 70 yet.
#2 Jan 09 2008 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
I think you have missed something here. The level 20 penalty is applied as a coefficient to your downranking penalty, the second formula simply restates the first one for spells above level 20.

The formulas are repeated over several wiki pages, also here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Downranking or here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Downranking

EDIT:
I have slapped together a quick and dirty spreadsheet for all pallie heals, allowing to play with player level and healing bonus.

The spreadsheet is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p1RnksEW--cpvZiCmS_EvcA&hl=en

And if needed, I wrote some contextual blah on my blog here: http://altitis.treehuggers.info/2008/01/09/paladin-healing-calculator-spreadsheet/

Any feedback telling me where exactly I fail at maths (because I am bound to have made mistakes somewhere) is appreciated, whether in this thread or on the blog.


Edited, Jan 9th 2008 2:43pm by Alastaironsiren
#3 Jan 09 2008 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
You didn't take talents into account. The only difference in your formula would be multiplying the average done by 1.12. I'd also include a min and a max heal AFTER the +heal is factored in, but other than those semantics it fits with the numbers my friend gave me better than either of mine did. And yours works for all levels.
#4 Jan 09 2008 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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389 posts
Dear God, the only part of this whole thread I understood was this:

skribs wrote:
Bah, too bad my pally isn't 70 yet.


I fail math so hard...
#5 Jan 09 2008 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Alastair, if I were to use your equations (but change the coefficients, levels, and ranks) on other classes - i.e. priests or druids, do you think I'd get accurate results? Assuming yours was accurate.
#6 Jan 09 2008 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
heh. i always used max ranks of all skills to eliminate any guesswork involved with this.
#7 Jan 09 2008 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Which means you're losing on mana effiency. GG for laziness.
#8 Jan 09 2008 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
ummm, sounding like a major noob here, but what does downranking mean? Thank you.
#9 Jan 09 2008 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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2,183 posts
Rihann wrote:
ummm, sounding like a major noob here, but what does downranking mean? Thank you.


It means using a lower rank of a spell in order to conserve mana.
#10 Jan 09 2008 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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1,004 posts
Quote:
Quote:
ummm, sounding like a major noob here, but what does downranking mean? Thank you.



It means using a lower rank of a spell in order to conserve mana.


True.. but for the sake of confusing newbs I feel like adding more.

There are items in the game that add to your spell damage and healing abilities. These are used to make your spells more powerful with the same mana cost, and thus more efficient.

A good long while ago, these +healing (for example) items had a uniform impact on all of your healing spells.

(Maximum potentials used)

Flash of Light, R1 = 72 / 35 mana = 2.06 health/mana
Flash of Light, R6 = 383 / 140 mana = 2.74 health/mana

Now if someone had enough +healing to add 1000 to Flash of Light, those would become:

R1 = 1072 / 35 = 30.63 health/mana
R6 = 1383 / 140 = 9.88 health/mana

See how Rank 1 became over 3x more efficient under the old system?

Now skribs' question is about the *new* system. The new system has a coefficient for every spell. Flash of Light, for example, only gets 43% of the +healing benefit. Also, if the spell can be learned before level 20 (notice FoL 1 is at 20) there is another coefficient applied to make the benefit even less.

The idea of the new system is to make it less efficient to use Rank 1 spells than something a little more powerful.

Downranking is a matter of juggling mana-efficiency with time-efficiency. Higher ranks heal more health/second, lower ranks heal more health/mana. Using the most efficient rank that can keep up with your tank's hits means you don't run out of mana as quick and can survive in the longer boss-fights.

Granted, none of this answers the OP's question -- but it gives some of newer healers who posted something to think about.
#11 Jan 10 2008 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
skribs wrote:
Alastair, if I were to use your equations (but change the coefficients, levels, and ranks) on other classes - i.e. priests or druids, do you think I'd get accurate results? Assuming yours was accurate.

If your last assumption is correct, yes, definitely.

Quote:
You didn't take talents into account.


Yup, it's just a quick and dirty job so far :) Can it be improved upon? Definitely. Will I do it? Probably. Need stuff to blog about, after all :)

Losie wrote:
The new system has a coefficient for every spell. Flash of Light, for example, only gets 43% of the +healing benefit.


Technically, no, the coefficient has been here as long as I remember. The coefficient is tied to casting time, and its value has been tweaked over time for various spells.

What has been added with patch 2.0 is a downranking limiter, which further reduces this coefficient the bigger the level gap between the player and the spell is, a penalty on that coefficient if you will.
#12 Jan 10 2008 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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1,441 posts
Spreadsheet has been revised and will also allow to set Healing Light talent points. Two more column will take your crit rate into account when calculating the average healing and HPM per spell.

I'm starting to get worried here, nobody has yet pointed out where I phail at maths, and there is bound to be some errors.
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