Raiding: Combat Swords 20/41/0
PvP: ???????? ??/??/??
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combat maces. probably 13/41/7 so i get imp EA, relentless, MoD, and dirty tricks. I don't want to give up that nice long range sap.
20-0-41, still... i specced for the change since i used to not max sin calling
thats fixt
i would go 19.42.0 if i ever went back to raiding, but /shrug
thats fixt
i would go 19.42.0 if i ever went back to raiding, but /shrug
i am 8/12/41! I wanted imp sprint, not sure it was worth it, but hey i need the hit from precision too.
Ive already tried 19/42 and hated it....
Ill probably respec again tomorrow.
Ive already tried 19/42 and hated it....
Ill probably respec again tomorrow.
41/20! Yay for being mediocre PvP and PvE-wise!
Shadowstep daggers 20/0/41
21/0/40, pretty nice, CB x2 20%more dmg below 35%hp so a nice CB finisher seems to be doing the trick of actually making a finisher a finisher.
Well I specced out of hemo for an 11/42/7 combat swords build.... and I hate it so far. Going to give it a try for a few days, but if I can't get it in that time then I'm going back my previous hemo build.
Combat swords I only have 1376 AP as opposed to the 1598 AP I had with sub... that kind of bothers me. Oh and of course, 40 energy for my main attack? THAT is what is killing me.
Combat swords I only have 1376 AP as opposed to the 1598 AP I had with sub... that kind of bothers me. Oh and of course, 40 energy for my main attack? THAT is what is killing me.
21 posts
having 1595 ap for mutilate is nice hehehe
right now im at 41/0/20 seems to do the trick im not rated that high on arena so crit builds still work out for me
right now im at 41/0/20 seems to do the trick im not rated that high on arena so crit builds still work out for me
I'm going with this for now.
I want to try the Deadly/Wound + Blade Twisting thing if my 2v2 priest ever stop being emo about druids. Since the points going in BT are somewhat 'dump' points (They'd be going to fill up Endurance or Vitality... no big lost really), I don't feel like I'm hurting myself to much even if I end up goung with Wound/Crippling on specific fights.
It has the benefits of doubling up as a PVE build as well.
I want to try the Deadly/Wound + Blade Twisting thing if my 2v2 priest ever stop being emo about druids. Since the points going in BT are somewhat 'dump' points (They'd be going to fill up Endurance or Vitality... no big lost really), I don't feel like I'm hurting myself to much even if I end up goung with Wound/Crippling on specific fights.
It has the benefits of doubling up as a PVE build as well.
13 posts
0/31/30 is still powerful enough
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRxZGcEzbVt0zhot
Thinking of dropping 2 points in Imp SnD for 2/2 NoS. Gonna see how this works for now though, no respec for a while...
Thinking of dropping 2 points in Imp SnD for 2/2 NoS. Gonna see how this works for now though, no respec for a while...
Well, I just respeced my rogue to 11/09/41. So far it seems pretty solid. I lose a bit of dps compared to Combat swords but I like the style of ShS.
I like to start with Premed, ShS, Cheap Shot, 5pt finisher. Always fun.
I like to start with Premed, ShS, Cheap Shot, 5pt finisher. Always fun.
Scholar
36 posts
16/45/0 Combat Maces since i just got my S1 Mace. I went for a build I could use for PVP and PVE and it is doing the job so far... although now I miss lolStep :-(
12/25/24
I wouldn't arena with it but it's nice and simple for honor farming.
I wouldn't arena with it but it's nice and simple for honor farming.
Ok, I just couldn't stand the combat swors build so I went back to a sub build and so far it is working out much better for me. Hemo > SS in my book mostly due to the energy efficiency. However, the recent patch screamed nerf. My impatience led me into gullibility about this so I specced 11/42/7 for combat swords pvp, just like so many people keep saying to do. I hated it... I couldn't even deal with it for more than a single day to give it a chance, that's how bored I was. So it was either retire my rogue or go back to hemo. I chose the respec. Best gold I've ever spent.
Hemo got the nerf, but it's not so bad when you go full sub. The nerf was just giving people a push to go all the way and grab Sinister Calling, which I liked anyway before the patch because of the 15% increase to agility (which is still the big part of it, not just increase to the now nerfed hemo). Before leaving the boring combat swords behind, I ran a test on a set of mobs as combat, then ran the same diagnostic on the same mobs again as sub. My conclusion was: not much of a difference when it came to Hemo vs SS. The thing is that there are two citical talents in deep sub: Dealiness (increases AP by 10%) and Sinister Calling (increases agility by 15%). Now for me, those 10 points took my AP from 1368 to 1584. From my observations, this added enough white damage to compensate for the white damage loss from speccing out of combat.
When conducting my test, I came up with the outcome that yes, the first hemo did less damage than SS, but by such a small number (thanks to Deadliness and Sinister Calling) that the difference wasn't that noticeable. What followed after the first hemo was added damage due to the debuff. So yes, hemo hit for less than SS (with the combat tree buffs, as without those buffs full sub hemo hit a lot harder than base SS), but the reduced enerrgy costs seemed worth it to me.
So, full sub hemo being a fine substitute for SS, tacked onto the the increased mobility of camo and ShS, added in with the increased utility of Dirty Tricks, I found the sub tree to be more fun to play than combat, and it didn't appear to be gimping in damage at all for me. In pvp, the extra combo point from cheap shot as well as the reduced cost of cheap shot added to the more energy efficient hemo allowed those stunlocks to hold long enough to take down my opponent with taking as little damage as possible. (When I was combat for a short time after 60 and when I went back to combat last month... and again when I went combat post patch, I was just a free HK in PvP with little survivability bad energy/CP efficiency. As combat swords I couldn't take down a mage to save my soul... now that I am back to sub I don't have a problem killing anything but pallies and that is strictly due to bubble giving them enough time for their friends to gang up on me). MoD and Camo are essential in PvP for me. The 15% increase to stealthed movement speed might not mean anything to most rogues, but it's a huge advantage for the way I play. The increased range of and decreased cost of sap is useful in both PvP and group PvE for me.
All in all, sub > combat for me because it gives me more managibility and my DPS doesn't suffer as much as combat rogues generally think. I like sub because it allows me to kill easier than combat ever did. No points in Imp. Ambush currently due to using swords, but I can still macro in my dagger when a ShS Ambush looks to be a good opener. So post patch I went back to sub and I am definitely sticking with it.
On the subject of hemo and the sub tree, I found this on WoW Blue Tracker:
So it looks like Blizz wants to increase the number of subtlety heavy rogues by making the sub tree a viable DPS option compared to the combat and assassination trees. The problem I see is that they really had already accomplished this. I much prefer full sub over combat and the DPS was comparable. The issue that arises though is that there is so little in the beginning of the tree that proves useful in combat that it shies a lot of people away from investing points into the tree. But a lot of people still went down to hemo but no further. This only goes to show that it appears the tree's real weakness is between hemo and sinister calling with the exception of prep and deadliness.
That's my opinion for the day.
Hemo got the nerf, but it's not so bad when you go full sub. The nerf was just giving people a push to go all the way and grab Sinister Calling, which I liked anyway before the patch because of the 15% increase to agility (which is still the big part of it, not just increase to the now nerfed hemo). Before leaving the boring combat swords behind, I ran a test on a set of mobs as combat, then ran the same diagnostic on the same mobs again as sub. My conclusion was: not much of a difference when it came to Hemo vs SS. The thing is that there are two citical talents in deep sub: Dealiness (increases AP by 10%) and Sinister Calling (increases agility by 15%). Now for me, those 10 points took my AP from 1368 to 1584. From my observations, this added enough white damage to compensate for the white damage loss from speccing out of combat.
When conducting my test, I came up with the outcome that yes, the first hemo did less damage than SS, but by such a small number (thanks to Deadliness and Sinister Calling) that the difference wasn't that noticeable. What followed after the first hemo was added damage due to the debuff. So yes, hemo hit for less than SS (with the combat tree buffs, as without those buffs full sub hemo hit a lot harder than base SS), but the reduced enerrgy costs seemed worth it to me.
So, full sub hemo being a fine substitute for SS, tacked onto the the increased mobility of camo and ShS, added in with the increased utility of Dirty Tricks, I found the sub tree to be more fun to play than combat, and it didn't appear to be gimping in damage at all for me. In pvp, the extra combo point from cheap shot as well as the reduced cost of cheap shot added to the more energy efficient hemo allowed those stunlocks to hold long enough to take down my opponent with taking as little damage as possible. (When I was combat for a short time after 60 and when I went back to combat last month... and again when I went combat post patch, I was just a free HK in PvP with little survivability bad energy/CP efficiency. As combat swords I couldn't take down a mage to save my soul... now that I am back to sub I don't have a problem killing anything but pallies and that is strictly due to bubble giving them enough time for their friends to gang up on me). MoD and Camo are essential in PvP for me. The 15% increase to stealthed movement speed might not mean anything to most rogues, but it's a huge advantage for the way I play. The increased range of and decreased cost of sap is useful in both PvP and group PvE for me.
All in all, sub > combat for me because it gives me more managibility and my DPS doesn't suffer as much as combat rogues generally think. I like sub because it allows me to kill easier than combat ever did. No points in Imp. Ambush currently due to using swords, but I can still macro in my dagger when a ShS Ambush looks to be a good opener. So post patch I went back to sub and I am definitely sticking with it.
On the subject of hemo and the sub tree, I found this on WoW Blue Tracker:
Quote:
We realise that there are some confusion regarding the Hemo change, and that many of you feel that the damage reduction is too much.
The developers felt that Hemo was overpowered. Pretty much every rogue was switching to Hemo because of this, so they made the change to tone it down somewhat. The developers want the subtlety tree to be a good support tree instead.
To clarify we don't simply make changes to an ability because it becomes popular. The changes done to hemorrhage (lowering its damage) is being done because we never intended for hemo rogues to do more damage, rather, our goal was to make the subtlety tree a viable alternative to combat and assassination. What resulted however, was not an increased number of subtlety rogues, but an increased number of rogues going just far enough down the subtlety tree to get hemorrhage.
We intend to tweak subtlety some more in upcoming patches, but ultimately won’t be able to flesh it out until Wrath of the Lich King.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemorrhage was intended to give heavy subtlety rogues some added damage, and to give the overall tree some additional appeal. Instead, many rogues just went down to the new hemo and ignored the rest. Our goal now is to make further improvements to the tree as a whole, so it has enough appeal and viability to compete with combat and assassination. Major changes will likely not come before the expansion, but we are looking in to more immediate tweaks as well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a class doesn’t feel it’s gaining anything when they spec deeper in a tree (to a 41 pt talent, for example), that is an issue. We tried to accomplish this for warriors with moving death wish to arms, by adding focused will to discipline, etc. The results can sometimes be mixed. There are definitely many more discipline priests now than a few patches ago, but not as many 41-pt talent arms warriors as there were before.
We want there to be more subtlety rogues, and we’re working to improve the tree. One way was to give the tree more damage, through hemorrhage. Unfortunately, that didn’t really improve the tree because everyone just stopped with the AR/Prep spec. What resulted was an increased power of the rogue class as a whole (not just the subtlety spec), which was unintended.
The developers felt that Hemo was overpowered. Pretty much every rogue was switching to Hemo because of this, so they made the change to tone it down somewhat. The developers want the subtlety tree to be a good support tree instead.
To clarify we don't simply make changes to an ability because it becomes popular. The changes done to hemorrhage (lowering its damage) is being done because we never intended for hemo rogues to do more damage, rather, our goal was to make the subtlety tree a viable alternative to combat and assassination. What resulted however, was not an increased number of subtlety rogues, but an increased number of rogues going just far enough down the subtlety tree to get hemorrhage.
We intend to tweak subtlety some more in upcoming patches, but ultimately won’t be able to flesh it out until Wrath of the Lich King.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemorrhage was intended to give heavy subtlety rogues some added damage, and to give the overall tree some additional appeal. Instead, many rogues just went down to the new hemo and ignored the rest. Our goal now is to make further improvements to the tree as a whole, so it has enough appeal and viability to compete with combat and assassination. Major changes will likely not come before the expansion, but we are looking in to more immediate tweaks as well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a class doesn’t feel it’s gaining anything when they spec deeper in a tree (to a 41 pt talent, for example), that is an issue. We tried to accomplish this for warriors with moving death wish to arms, by adding focused will to discipline, etc. The results can sometimes be mixed. There are definitely many more discipline priests now than a few patches ago, but not as many 41-pt talent arms warriors as there were before.
We want there to be more subtlety rogues, and we’re working to improve the tree. One way was to give the tree more damage, through hemorrhage. Unfortunately, that didn’t really improve the tree because everyone just stopped with the AR/Prep spec. What resulted was an increased power of the rogue class as a whole (not just the subtlety spec), which was unintended.
So it looks like Blizz wants to increase the number of subtlety heavy rogues by making the sub tree a viable DPS option compared to the combat and assassination trees. The problem I see is that they really had already accomplished this. I much prefer full sub over combat and the DPS was comparable. The issue that arises though is that there is so little in the beginning of the tree that proves useful in combat that it shies a lot of people away from investing points into the tree. But a lot of people still went down to hemo but no further. This only goes to show that it appears the tree's real weakness is between hemo and sinister calling with the exception of prep and deadliness.
That's my opinion for the day.
still ganking half-dead drunks with ShS daggers, but now i got a decent sword i can switch to for hemo when i'm forced to fight fair.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 1:41pm by chipstack
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 1:41pm by chipstack
chipstack wrote:
still ganking half-dead drunks with ShS daggers, but now i got a decent sword i can switch to for hemo when i'm forced to fight fair.
That's what I have always liked to do... just in my respec I took the 3 points out of imp ambush and threw into imp eviscerate since I'm not opening with ambush as much anymore.
Scholar
20 posts
Similar to EonSprinter's build..I'm using 11/26/24 and loving it. I just switch out Imp Evis for Murder and BF, then move 1 camo to GS for some ghetto dodge.
I went back to Combat Maces 19/42 after the nerf patch, but just felt it was going to slow in PvP for the intial lock down.
It looks like it will do OK for PvE. I checked out the updated DPS sheet and this build actually outperforms Combat Maces...at least with my gear. Weird thing is, my "optimum cycle" is showing as 5s/5r which will take some getting used to.
I went back to Combat Maces 19/42 after the nerf patch, but just felt it was going to slow in PvP for the intial lock down.
It looks like it will do OK for PvE. I checked out the updated DPS sheet and this build actually outperforms Combat Maces...at least with my gear. Weird thing is, my "optimum cycle" is showing as 5s/5r which will take some getting used to.
I'm probably going to move my points very slightly: 11/25/25
Improved Eviserate is garbage. I also wanted another point in camo so I'd be able to restealth one second earlier after blinding a target.
The energy / CP return, in combination with a cheap main attack and faster restealths allows for some very smooth opening lock-downs.
What I used as a "lazy man's build" is proving to be rather fun and effective. I may just take this out of the BG's and give it a try in the 2v2's.
Improved Eviserate is garbage. I also wanted another point in camo so I'd be able to restealth one second earlier after blinding a target.
The energy / CP return, in combination with a cheap main attack and faster restealths allows for some very smooth opening lock-downs.
What I used as a "lazy man's build" is proving to be rather fun and effective. I may just take this out of the BG's and give it a try in the 2v2's.
Yeah I'm currently using ShS for PvP and it does...Ok. I get in a decent amount of burst and it has a lot of utility and decent mobility but...It really does lack in sustained DPS. It'll serve great in BGs and low arena ranks but nothing beyond that I don't think.
Semi OT but:
I am really liking the work that Blizz has done with the talent trees for all the classes. For the most part, I cannot think of any "worthless" tree, like I used to be able to before the rehaul and such.
While some may not be the best tree for a class, most of them have some place in PvP/Raiding if you really want them (although a few are limited to one or the other).
I remember the days when a Prot Pally was considered rediculous and a Balance Druid might as well quit.
Just wanted to say I am happy that, when looking at a thread like this, you see everyone with different builds to suit their own preference. : )
I am really liking the work that Blizz has done with the talent trees for all the classes. For the most part, I cannot think of any "worthless" tree, like I used to be able to before the rehaul and such.
While some may not be the best tree for a class, most of them have some place in PvP/Raiding if you really want them (although a few are limited to one or the other).
I remember the days when a Prot Pally was considered rediculous and a Balance Druid might as well quit.
Just wanted to say I am happy that, when looking at a thread like this, you see everyone with different builds to suit their own preference. : )
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
A guild member just suggested a 0/20/41 build for pvp. And tbh i am quite curious to try it out tonight.
18/43/0 Maces
Still seems to be working quite well for PvE and PvP atm. Saving me an arm and a leg on respecs atm.
Still seems to be working quite well for PvE and PvP atm. Saving me an arm and a leg on respecs atm.
33/3/25
V nice pvp spec I find :)
V nice pvp spec I find :)
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