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Reckoning, Precision, and other potentially useless things.Follow

#1 Jan 08 2008 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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My Tankadin has now reached 70 and I think I've geared up enough to start doing some heroics (uncrittable, 1.5% away from uncrushable, and about 200Spell Damage). So I was doing some research and saw this thread about talents to avoid. Now it has me questioning my build which includes Reckoning, Precision, and the often controversial Ardent Defender. Also, I'm looking into Pursuit of Justice now (something I never considered before).

So, I thought I'd list the pros and cons of each as I see them and ask for any legitimate critiques.

Reckoning
Pros:
-Doubles your number of swings *most* of the time if fighting several monsters at once. This gives extra chances of proccing seals and extra damage.
-*Can* provide double swings against single mobs for a threat boost.
Cons:
-Effectiveness is reduced as complete avoidance increases.
-Resets bosses attack timer potentially resulting in a lot of swings coming back at the Tankadin.
Summary:
It seems that this is most useful in large pulls, where even if your avoidance is relatively high, can still provide a significant boost to threat. Could potentially be dangerous in boss fights, but that danger is offset by expertise.

Precision
Pros:
-Reduces your melee miss chance by 3%, meaning you hit 3% more often which means you're creating about 3% more threat from your swings (which is maybe half your threat so a 1.5% threat increase).
-Reduces your spell miss chance by 3%, meaning you are 3% more likely to land your judgements and succeed with your taunts (taking your miss chance from 4% to 1% for lvl 70 mobs and 17% to 14% for bossess).
Cons:
- 3 Points you could spend on something else.
Summary:
Provides a small boost to threat and *could* make the difference between saving a group member with a taunt or having it resisted.

Ardent Defender
Pros:
-Reduces damage by 30% when below 35% health.
Cons:
-Against hard hitting bosses, you might never get below 35% health before being dead.
Summary:
Once again, this seem most beneficial against multiple less damaging mobs where the talent can drastically extend your life. Is also more beneficial with more hp and *could* make the difference between being dead and the healer having the opportunity to heal you before the bosses next swing.

Pursuit of Justice
Pros:
-3% chance to avoid being hit by spells = 3% less spell damage taken (over time).
-15% boost to movement will really help chase things down
Cons:
- 3 Points you could spend on something else.
Summary:
This shows its merit if taking a lot of spell hits or if you need to chase things down.
#2 Jan 08 2008 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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277 posts
I have tried all three talents and the only one I keep in my build is Ardent Defender. I seriously don't understand how any tankadin can think about missing this. Sure some of the extremely harder hitting bosses can jump it, but to do that they will have to be hitting for over 5k on a tank with 15k health. If you are hovering at that level and take a hit like that you are either extremely unlucky, the healers aren't keeping you up enough, or you are badly positioned.

I often hear healers saying how much they love the talent after a particuarly close fight, watching my damage all of a sudden start to crawl. If you are geared well enough, and have the right tactics, there really shouldn't be a fight where the boss leap frogs 35% of your health in one hit.

Say you weren't going to get Ardent Defender, what could you possibly spend the points on that are more useful to a tankadin?

Edited, Jan 8th 2008 8:32pm by Chamual
#3 Jan 08 2008 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
ardent defender is definately a godsend talent.

and it's always up anytime a warrior would usually pop shield wall.

could someone explain how hitting a boss more would reset it's swing timer? (especially if you say, don't miss?) and btw 'complete' avoidance? that would be 100% dodge and parry, and a defense high enough to warrant a 100% natural miss rate. As it stands now, there's always gonna be 2/4 scenarios when reckoning can pop. when you block with your probably higher than dodge and parry combined block%(imp. holy shield+redoubt pop), or when you get hit.
#4 Jan 08 2008 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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Gukagim wrote:
could someone explain how hitting a boss more would reset it's swing timer? (especially if you say, don't miss?)


More of your weapon swings means more chances for the boss to parry. Some bosses don't have parry, so this would be insignificant there.
#5 Jan 08 2008 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Gukagim wrote:
could someone explain how hitting a boss more would reset it's swing timer? (especially if you say, don't miss?)


More of your weapon swings means more chances for the boss to parry. Some bosses don't have parry, so this would be insignificant there.

Every boss has parry.

Ardent Defender is quite good, and Precision works out to aprox. 3% threat increase (potentially more) and is rather nice. The rest are fairly meh in raid tanking, although reckoning is good for soloing.
#6 Jan 08 2008 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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RPZip wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Gukagim wrote:
could someone explain how hitting a boss more would reset it's swing timer? (especially if you say, don't miss?)


More of your weapon swings means more chances for the boss to parry. Some bosses don't have parry, so this would be insignificant there.

Every boss has parry.

Ardent Defender is quite good, and Precision works out to aprox. 3% threat increase (potentially more) and is rather nice. The rest are fairly meh in raid tanking, although reckoning is good for soloing.


This I did not know. I could have sworn I read somewhere that some didn't. Well, you learn new things every day.
#7 Jan 09 2008 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
This I did not know. I could have sworn I read somewhere that some didn't. Well, you learn new things every day.


You may have it mixed up with Crushing Blows. There are some bosses specifically flagged to never crush. (though they are very rare)
#8 Jan 09 2008 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Ialaman wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
This I did not know. I could have sworn I read somewhere that some didn't. Well, you learn new things every day.


You may have it mixed up with Crushing Blows. There are some bosses specifically flagged to never crush. (though they are very rare)


Could be, though I very specifically remember reading that it was parry. Probably the guy I read saying it was confused.
#9 Jan 09 2008 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
Everything parries. It's retarded because a bear can parry, but a feral druid can't?
#10 Jan 09 2008 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
ive also been blocked by beasts also . . .
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