Frustrations at ST as DPSFollow

If all he was doing was Sundering as you said, then obviously you'd be taking a lot of aggro with Cleave because your cleave is doing lots of damage to mobs that he's not tanking. If he was constantly Thunder Clapping that might have helped.

Yea, in a situation like that just don't use cleave and stick with heroic strike and basically anything else that doesn't hit multiple targets.

And next time he says that, tell him that thunderclapping will HELP with his rage generation, because instead of 1 mob hitting him, he'll have 2 or 3 mobs hitting him, and he'll be generating lots more rage because of it.

Unless you are told to do AOE/multi-target attacks like whirlwind or cleave - just attack the main DPS target and follow the kill order after the first one goes down. Even if I'm in a situation where I am free to use TC (meaning no CC close by) it is still hard to hold one mob against concentrated DPS while countering the heal aggro on the other mobs that I am tanking. If a DPS person starts doing DPS to any target except for the current designated DPS target then that person risks pulling aggro and dying.

I also feel that level 45 (if that's the character you are talking about) is too low for ST. I would risk taking a Healer who was 47 or 48 if the rest of the group was over 50 but wouldn't take a level 45 DPS unless there was someone level 60+ running things and tell the 45 to just stay out of trouble. I know they did nerf the levels of some stuff in ST but I'm pretty sure that it is still geared towards level 50 players.

When I'm in a group where the DPS all sticks to the designated kill order, things go very smoothly and I seldom lose aggro even when tanking 3+ mobs at a time with no TC available because of a nearby sheep or trap. If a Warrior was DPS in my group and using Cleave and Whirlwind, he better be prepared to take some damage because he's going to pull my lightly tanked mobs as well as the traps and sheeps he breaks.

Maybe a super tank can hold everything despite a bunch of DPS doing damage to different mobs but I'm not a super tank. I'm an average tank who likes to do things in the safest possible way to minimize repairs and have the run go as smoothly as possible.

One thing I've found in my time levelling to 70 (which TBH I only hit 70 this weekend, maybe things change later) is that if I don't mark, nobody will. It's so annoying, I thought by the time I was doing some of the more difficult 70 instances like TK or Shadow Labs that people would know that **** needs to get marked. Yet I go in, and ever single time the leader just goes and pulls something with no marks. So I have to ask for leader myself if anything is gonna ever get done in my groups.

I usually ask one of the people who is experienced in the instance to do the marking. I didn't do a lot of instances in my rush from 60-70 so I'm learning them now. Eventually I will learn which mobs are best for which forms of CC but until then, I rely a lot on the experience of my guildies. I actually think that Rogues are great for marking (if they know what they are doing) since they can usually get closer to the group and look around corners while stealthed to scout all the potential problems. I've also run with an excellent Hunter who marks and pulls to time her traps efficiently.

When I dps for a warrior tank, I do not whirlwind or cleave, at all. That will snap those mobs right on me. Thunder Clap will not hold aggro through those moves.

If it's a Druid tank, I test the waters. Do a few AOE moves to see if it's a good druid tank (my druid tank can hold aggro through cleave and WW, I almost always take warrior dps so I am well aware of what I can and cannot hold). I never open up with WW or cleave on a Druid tank though. Like warriors, their aggro is not frontloaded.

If it's a paladin tank, I go all out. I charge, open right up with all my hardhitting AOE moves, and very rarely pull aggro. I definitely greatly prefer paladin tanks when I dps on my warrior. In fact, I tend to avoid dpsing at all if there's not a paladin tank.

Basically, you are both at fault. The tank is at fault for not trying to hold AOE aggro. You are at fault for not following basic dps rules of not pulling aggro. As fury, you have slam and bloodthirst. Use those moves. If you don't have improved slam, you did not choose your talents wisely.

I dpsed for a warrior tank last night in Karazhan. I ended up on top of the damage meter. In most situations, I did not use WW or cleave. Instead, I would use Slam after every white hit, and if I had rage left I would use Mortal Strike. If I had no fear of breaking CC, I would use WW as an extra immediate attack when I was loaded down with rage.

There were situations where I was able to Sweeping Strikes Whirlwind and Cleave, such as large pulls of non-elite trash mobs. In most pulls, I held myself back.

You should focus on what you are doing that is pulling aggro. If you pull aggro on the main focus target, that is your fault and you should immediately stop attacking until the tank pulls him off you, or throw on a shield and tank him because that's clearly what you want to do if you are pulling aggro like that. It sounds to me like you never learned how to watch your threat. Get a threat meter. Learn what will pull threat and what won't. And never AOE unless the tank specifically says it is ok.

This is very true. We were in H Mech last night and couldn't get a Lock or Hunter for CC and ended up getting a Mage to fill our gap giving us two Mages and a S Priest for CC. This was great for the humanoid pulls but it made the demon pulls a bit tricky in spots. On the pull of two large and two small demons right before the boss, we were going to go with me tanking the elites while the non-elites got burned down which probably would have worked but one of the Mages suggested letting the two Mages use Frost Nova to control one large demon while I tanked the other one while the non-elites got burned down. this actually worked out really well and turned out to be one of our better plan executions of the evening. While I am capable of tanking two mobs, my gear still is just barely okay for heroics and we had a Healer who was a new 70 still working on gear and doing his first heroic.

Good CC people know what they can do even if the normal CC methods won't work in a given situation. They often have other insights such as knowing which mobs have fun buffs to use while mind-controlled and which ones have good stuff to spell-steal. They can often control mobs by kiting or other means when the mobs are immune to the more traditional CC methods.