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I love Idiots.Follow
This happened a few weeks back during a quick Mech run. The party was a Warrior, enhancement shaman, 2 other random dps, and me healing. I did the same blessings as always. Kings to the tank, wisdom for me, I gave all the dps salvation.
Shaman:"Can I get might instead?"
Me:"If you need might to dps, you need new gear"
During the first pull, Shaman rips hate off the tank. The Patroller quickly took him down. I honestly did let him die, but with good intentions.
Shaman:"See it didn't work"
Me:"What do you mean? You just proved me right. Learn to watch your threat."
The entire party agreed with me, which was expected. He continued to cause two more wipes later in the instance. I was forced to pull out because of silliness. Anyway, had to share.
was he spamming earthshock? i dunno how to play an enh shaman but everyone ive grouped with spammed earthshock and constantly pulled hate. Of course i group much with them, but the limited experiences have not been good.
more likely he frost shocked.
heh, i did one worse my self.
a friend needed a run through BRD, ive been spec'd Ret for some time now for pvp but i figure this should be easy non the less.
in the end it was, but man i really messed up those first 10 minutes of first impression . . .
i gave everyone salvation, to include myself. forgot to buff with RF. and wonderin why my consicrate wasnt holding more threat before i soon realized that, it was my rank 1 that i use to find Rogues . . .
i was pretty much the worst tank ever. i soon got my act together and i was tanking 3-4 groups even as Ret spec with no trouble. and in an epic pull on the last boss i tryed to pull 5 groups at once when some dolt got the team flagged and killed before i was ready and i had to solo them . . ensuing fight was nothing short of epic.
also frollicking through BRD Torch room as a 70 Pally is pretty much the most fun you can possibly have in this game. and i wasnt even Prot at the time.
a friend needed a run through BRD, ive been spec'd Ret for some time now for pvp but i figure this should be easy non the less.
in the end it was, but man i really messed up those first 10 minutes of first impression . . .
i gave everyone salvation, to include myself. forgot to buff with RF. and wonderin why my consicrate wasnt holding more threat before i soon realized that, it was my rank 1 that i use to find Rogues . . .
i was pretty much the worst tank ever. i soon got my act together and i was tanking 3-4 groups even as Ret spec with no trouble. and in an epic pull on the last boss i tryed to pull 5 groups at once when some dolt got the team flagged and killed before i was ready and i had to solo them . . ensuing fight was nothing short of epic.
also frollicking through BRD Torch room as a 70 Pally is pretty much the most fun you can possibly have in this game. and i wasnt even Prot at the time.
Enhancement shaman is rough in 5-mans. With Salv, I've seen some very good enhancement shamans that still occasionally pull threat with a big windfury and get aggro. Best ones always ask for salv, but know how to watch Omen and turn their back to a mob to stop attacking quickly.
One of my friends plays an enh. shaman. Now he isn't much into figuring out game mechanics and getting gear to complement his stats. He's more into killing stuff as fast as possible and counting on me to bail him out. I don't get mad at him, I expect it and it makes things interesting.
Anyway, he duel-wields, so when tanking I'll pull a group of mobs, and he will immediately start with all his shocks and stormstrike as fast as he can, effectively ripping a mob off of me. It's his entire strategy, and it worked when he was a lower level and when he was doing PvP, but it doesn't work as well now and usually involves him dieing a lot more than he should.
Anyway, no matter what I do to prepare for this, getting ready to judge righteousness and throw out as much holy damage as I can, I still have to taunt the mobs off of him in the end. Whenever I party with him, I consider it idiot training for the future.
Anyway, he duel-wields, so when tanking I'll pull a group of mobs, and he will immediately start with all his shocks and stormstrike as fast as he can, effectively ripping a mob off of me. It's his entire strategy, and it worked when he was a lower level and when he was doing PvP, but it doesn't work as well now and usually involves him dieing a lot more than he should.
Anyway, no matter what I do to prepare for this, getting ready to judge righteousness and throw out as much holy damage as I can, I still have to taunt the mobs off of him in the end. Whenever I party with him, I consider it idiot training for the future.
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
Anyway, no matter what I do to prepare for this, getting ready to judge righteousness and throw out as much holy damage as I can, I still have to taunt the mobs off of him in the end. Whenever I party with him, I consider it idiot training for the future.
Start BoPing him during the pull, maybe? It won't stop his shocks, but he won't be able to DPS as hard without physical attacks.
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
One of my friends plays an enh. shaman. Now he isn't much into figuring out game mechanics and getting gear to complement his stats. He's more into killing stuff as fast as possible and counting on me to bail him out. I don't get mad at him, I expect it and it makes things interesting.
A true friend would get mad at him.
Ahmm... Since this thread is here, I'd like to ask you guys how do you handle with people (saaaayyy... hunters group leaders) who mark 3 mobs, set the rules b4 we start the run, but then when we engage and I start building threat through Holy Shield, the **** attacks the 2nd or 3rd mob on the list and (intentionally?) steals a semi-perfect aggro.
This kind of situation has been happening too much with me. I think it's understandable when the group's level is relatively high for the instance, and in that case, I usually don't interfere with the side fights untill a mob attacks my healer. But when we're interested on organized runs, mainly to save mana to the sake of the flow, how do you guys handle with the situation?
I ask this because when I notice that the group is tremendously organized, I usually tank w/o ever poping a consecrate, and w/o losing aggro. Recently tho, I've been getting a lot of those ppl who think that killing 1 mob faster always mean finishing the event faster and safer.
This kind of situation has been happening too much with me. I think it's understandable when the group's level is relatively high for the instance, and in that case, I usually don't interfere with the side fights untill a mob attacks my healer. But when we're interested on organized runs, mainly to save mana to the sake of the flow, how do you guys handle with the situation?
I ask this because when I notice that the group is tremendously organized, I usually tank w/o ever poping a consecrate, and w/o losing aggro. Recently tho, I've been getting a lot of those ppl who think that killing 1 mob faster always mean finishing the event faster and safer.
Yeah I have gotten the "way to pull off the tank" before, and it was probobly my fault. However, don't always blame the other person, I tanked a run once because our pally was ret. Not that ret can't tank (I have healed many runs with a ret dps tanking), but probobly because he never learned righteous fury. Once again, I'm not trying to attack all ret pallies. Besides this is a thread about idiots right?
48 posts
tank dies= healers fault
healer dies= tanks fault
dps dies= dps fault
huntards without omen and keep the pet growl on= idiot
healer dies= tanks fault
dps dies= dps fault
huntards without omen and keep the pet growl on= idiot
Quote:
tank dies= healers fault
healer dies= tanks fault
dps dies= dps fault
huntards without omen and keep the pet growl on= idiot
healer dies= tanks fault
dps dies= dps fault
huntards without omen and keep the pet growl on= idiot
As a tank, easily 95% of the times I've died have either been my own fault or the DPS' fault. In my experience, the healer doesnt choose where we fight to avoid uncontrollable adds. Nor does the healer make the pulls and risk making a bad one. Nor is the onus on the healer to down mobs quickly before they run out of mana. Nor do healers break CC. These are the reasons that I die as a tank. There have been very few cases of the healer "simply forgetting to heal" me, or "not watching the bars" -- and I can't recall that ever happening to me beyond say.. RFK or so.
Everyone has to adapt to accomodate the healer, the dps also has to adapt to accomodate the tank.
As far as hunters who keep pet growl on... I'll get the mob back after the pet dies.
Losie wrote:
As far as hunters who keep pet growl on... I'll get the mob back after the pet dies.
What if your taunt is on CD cause some DPS couldn't control himself? Pet taking aggro and dieing means very little threat gained by the tank due to that mob not beating on the tank's Holy Shield and Ret Aura. Unless the pet is supposed to be off tanking a mob for some reason, that = fail.
That was more an "effect statement" as a hit against poorly played hunters (or really any class for that matter).
The fact remains that I don't entirely ignore any mob that's pulled off of me for any reason. Somethings I let go (for CC for example) but I'd react to a pet pulling aggro with growl.
I always find it funny when I read people saying "If they pull aggro after my warnings, I just let them die" because in my experience, letting your group members die = wipe. Regardless of what "lessons" you teach them (that they subsequently don't learn).
The fact remains that I don't entirely ignore any mob that's pulled off of me for any reason. Somethings I let go (for CC for example) but I'd react to a pet pulling aggro with growl.
I always find it funny when I read people saying "If they pull aggro after my warnings, I just let them die" because in my experience, letting your group members die = wipe. Regardless of what "lessons" you teach them (that they subsequently don't learn).
Losie wrote:
As a tank, easily 95% of the times I've died have either been my own fault or the DPS' fault. In my experience, the healer doesnt choose where we fight to avoid uncontrollable adds. Nor does the healer make the pulls and risk making a bad one. Nor is the onus on the healer to down mobs quickly before they run out of mana. Nor do healers break CC. These are the reasons that I die as a tank. There have been very few cases of the healer "simply forgetting to heal" me, or "not watching the bars" -- and I can't recall that ever happening to me beyond say.. RFK or so.
Everyone has to adapt to accomodate the healer, the dps also has to adapt to accomodate the tank.
Everyone has to adapt to accomodate the healer, the dps also has to adapt to accomodate the tank.
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Losie wrote:
I always find it funny when I read people saying "If they pull aggro after my warnings, I just let them die" because in my experience, letting your group members die = wipe. Regardless of what "lessons" you teach them (that they subsequently don't learn).
You'd be surprised how often in Heroic runs with a poorly played group it'll be just me and the healer left and we manage to finish whatever is left standing, sometimes even 3 mobs:
"Now what did I tell you about DPSing off targets?"
"To not to ..."
"Did you turn Growl off?"
"No ..."
Etc.
At least for a Paladin with a good healer letting the DPS die (or them just being plain stupid and dieing) does not = wipe all the time. Knowing your limits makes using the "you pull aggro, I let you die" tactic, at least in my experience, quite effective.
Agree wholeheartedly Maulgak. I do the same thing and rarely have problems. If the fort mage thinks he wants to kite 2-3 mobs (or 1 on heroic) instead of responsible CC and DPS. Fine. Do it.
I know that I have to save my taunt for when he dies but that's about it. Once I get it back we're good to go and I've rarely wiped. I've also rarely killed my healer or self in the process.
I do agree that, generally speaking, it's not the healer's fault when the tank dies. There are some MORONIC healers out there but usually I drop group before we get too far. I do blame irresonsible DPS or utility classes decideing to DPS rather than do what we really brought them for. Sometimes stuff goes wrong and that's fine but when it's the rule rather than the exception then it's a problem.
Am I perfect? Nope. But I can generally get stuff back even with bad players and the times that I did die horrifically and it was my fault it was usually because I was under=geared so I didn't do those runs until I geared up (or re-specced) and saved my healer some grief.
I look at it this way, when I pugged stuff I would usually have a brief conversation in tells with the healer so we could set our expectations with regards to each other (i.e. do you want CC or can I just wade in when it's safe to do so. Can I wear my DPS set early and on trash as I'm overgeared or would you rather I stay in my tank set and drank a lot in between). Once we had that down either the DPS was good or we dropped.
I know that I have to save my taunt for when he dies but that's about it. Once I get it back we're good to go and I've rarely wiped. I've also rarely killed my healer or self in the process.
I do agree that, generally speaking, it's not the healer's fault when the tank dies. There are some MORONIC healers out there but usually I drop group before we get too far. I do blame irresonsible DPS or utility classes decideing to DPS rather than do what we really brought them for. Sometimes stuff goes wrong and that's fine but when it's the rule rather than the exception then it's a problem.
Am I perfect? Nope. But I can generally get stuff back even with bad players and the times that I did die horrifically and it was my fault it was usually because I was under=geared so I didn't do those runs until I geared up (or re-specced) and saved my healer some grief.
I look at it this way, when I pugged stuff I would usually have a brief conversation in tells with the healer so we could set our expectations with regards to each other (i.e. do you want CC or can I just wade in when it's safe to do so. Can I wear my DPS set early and on trash as I'm overgeared or would you rather I stay in my tank set and drank a lot in between). Once we had that down either the DPS was good or we dropped.
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