When I originally rerolled on my recent server my initial intention at 70 was to be Holy for BG's and Instances. So I started out as Ret in my pursuit to 70 and when I reached 61 I am came to the sad realization or a bad 2 weeks of not getting into parties that Ret Paladins are not wanted as dps the majority of cases (come 70 things might be different just speaking from what I saw). So I ran into a choice, respec Prot or Holy. I decided to go Prot which was the best choice I have made but I am now running into two issues.
1. How do I increase my Health/Armor without loosing +Spell Dmg?
I know that at 70 you have a larger pool of areas to obtain gear from but getting to 70 you are more at the mercey of instance/quest drops or the AH which we all know can be hit-or-miss.
2. How do I effectively reserve mana while tanking and fighting to control aggro?
Example: 5-man running Mana Tombs (Prot Pld, DPS Shaman, Ret Pld, Lock, Restro Druid)
I noticed and this might all come down to getting more +spell dmg or something I am missing, that when we were fighting multi mob pulls the shaman was still in some cases able to peel a mob off of me but not on a boss fight. Now in the beginning while learning how to tank I was always spamming ineffectively my spells which we all know drains mana quickly. As time has progressed I still notice on some pulls and boss fights my mana is gone before the end of the fight even when I don't loose aggro. So I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong or maybe this is just normal (then comes down to consumables). If I have a 3-4 targeted mob group I have the following textbook setup.
Seal of Righteousness (Judgment of Righteousness on cooldown)
Holy Shield (On every cooldown)
Blessing of Sanctuary
Consecration (On every cooldown)
Retribution Aura
Judgment of the Crusader (On primary kill mob/switched when needed)
Righteous Defense
...but even so I sometimes feel that isn't enough to hold aggro. So does this come down to a learning curve, gear and/or both?
Character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hakkar&n=Draig
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 12:36pm by Wales
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Looking to maximize my tanking effectiveness
Looking to maximize my tanking effectivenessFollow
Wales wrote:
1. How do I increase my Health/Armor without loosing +Spell Dmg?
The only thing you need spell damage from is a good spell damage weapon with the 40 spell damage enchant. Maybe a few glowing nightseyes here and there, but prot paladins don't need a huge amount of spell damage to be effective. Most of your gear can be protection warrior gear.
Wales wrote:
when I reached 61 I am came to the sad realization or a bad 2 weeks of not getting into parties that Ret Paladins are not wanted as dps the majority of cases (come 70 things might be different just speaking from what I saw).
yes ret gets a lot of lol's, but i found if i gear and play well the one lol'ing me ends up hating me and making excuses for why i beat him and everyone else adds me to friends lists for future groups. i've had no lack of instance runs and many times i've been invited as dps. oh, and at 70 it does change... more people hate on ret... build your dps reputation well before 70 or you'll have a hard time.
Wales wrote:
but getting to 70 you are more at the mercey of instance/quest drops or the AH which we all know can be hit-or-miss.
i reccomend getting atlas loot. i don't persnally know where the good pally tanking gear is, but i find atlas loot (or probably any other loot database addon) helps alot in finding good gear on my holy and ret pallys.
Wales wrote:
2. How do I effectively reserve mana while tanking and fighting to control aggro?
Example: 5-man running Mana Tombs (Prot Pld, DPS Shaman, Ret Pld, Lock, Restro Druid)
I noticed and this might all come down to getting more +spell dmg or something I am missing, that when we were fighting multi mob pulls the shaman was still in some cases able to peel a mob off of me but not on a boss fight.
Example: 5-man running Mana Tombs (Prot Pld, DPS Shaman, Ret Pld, Lock, Restro Druid)
I noticed and this might all come down to getting more +spell dmg or something I am missing, that when we were fighting multi mob pulls the shaman was still in some cases able to peel a mob off of me but not on a boss fight.
first of all, interesting group... haha. i'd almost like to try a group like that sometime... secondly, you should be getting mana back while you're being healed. if you're not getting enough mana back and your healer isn't running out of mana, i'd try pulling slightly more mobs maybe. just make sure you maximize your aoe threat and that your healer can keep up. don't use CC either. that takes away from your healing taken.
Wales,
I remember having some gear issues in my early to mid-60s as well. You just have to hunt down the pieces that you need until you can get to 70 and really flesh everything out. That being said, you shouldn't need that much spell damage to keep the mobs on you and off of the group. I only have 190SD in my boss tanking gear and it's worked great up through Arcatraz. (I seem to remember having about 90SD at 60). Something that will really boost your threat is raising your defense and block rating to get even more out of holy shield (a threat powerhouse).
Something that starting tanks often overlook is blessing of salvation. I recommend putting it on the rest of your group. A 30% reduction in threat is HUGE and it'll make your run go a lot smoother (trust me, they really don't need, might or kings or whatever else they want).
Keeping your mana up can be pretty problematic until you get it down. First, I'd recommend Blessing and Judging Wisdom. The mana returns from those make a big difference. Also, you can stop spamming consecrate after 2-3 times unless the pull is particularly large or you're group is doing AoE damage. This last tip may seem counterintuitive, but if your healer can handle you, you can actually try to take MORE damage. The extra healing you get will give you more mana through Spiritual Attunement.
My basic tanking strategy works like this. First, use retribution aura, blessing of wisdom, and righteous fury on yourself. Bless everyone else with salvation. When pulling, use Avenger's shield if you can; it generates a lot of threat up front. Then put up holy shield and consecrate when the mobs get close. Judge wisdom on your primary target and switch to vengeance/righteousness. Keep holy shield up all the time. You'll likely only need to consecrate 2-3 times to keep aggro off the healer unless it's a really big pull. Also, When the primary target is soon to be dead (10-15% health), switch to the next target and start building threat on him. If the mobs are going down quickly, you don't even need to re-judge wisdowm, just stay with vengeance/righteousness.
I remember having some gear issues in my early to mid-60s as well. You just have to hunt down the pieces that you need until you can get to 70 and really flesh everything out. That being said, you shouldn't need that much spell damage to keep the mobs on you and off of the group. I only have 190SD in my boss tanking gear and it's worked great up through Arcatraz. (I seem to remember having about 90SD at 60). Something that will really boost your threat is raising your defense and block rating to get even more out of holy shield (a threat powerhouse).
Something that starting tanks often overlook is blessing of salvation. I recommend putting it on the rest of your group. A 30% reduction in threat is HUGE and it'll make your run go a lot smoother (trust me, they really don't need, might or kings or whatever else they want).
Keeping your mana up can be pretty problematic until you get it down. First, I'd recommend Blessing and Judging Wisdom. The mana returns from those make a big difference. Also, you can stop spamming consecrate after 2-3 times unless the pull is particularly large or you're group is doing AoE damage. This last tip may seem counterintuitive, but if your healer can handle you, you can actually try to take MORE damage. The extra healing you get will give you more mana through Spiritual Attunement.
My basic tanking strategy works like this. First, use retribution aura, blessing of wisdom, and righteous fury on yourself. Bless everyone else with salvation. When pulling, use Avenger's shield if you can; it generates a lot of threat up front. Then put up holy shield and consecrate when the mobs get close. Judge wisdom on your primary target and switch to vengeance/righteousness. Keep holy shield up all the time. You'll likely only need to consecrate 2-3 times to keep aggro off the healer unless it's a really big pull. Also, When the primary target is soon to be dead (10-15% health), switch to the next target and start building threat on him. If the mobs are going down quickly, you don't even need to re-judge wisdowm, just stay with vengeance/righteousness.
Wales wrote:
1. How do I increase my Health/Armor without loosing +Spell Dmg?
Don't fret too much over your spell damage just yet, but mainly focus on Prot Warrior gear. A good spell damage weapon is all you will really need until raiding. I don't remember having any +spell damage on my tank gear between 60-70, I even had my weapon enchanted with, crap, what's that one that curses the target? Anyway, there is some decent "Protish" quest rewards, but in the end go with whichever one with give more stam/defense regardless of spell damage.
Wales wrote:
2. How do I effectively reserve mana while tanking and fighting to control aggro?
Best advice I can give for this is learn your limit and take it to the max. Also later you said you use Consecration every CD. That's not always necessary, so just play around and find when you can afford not to cast it. Also Judging Wisdom can be great for keeping your mana up: open with that, then pull up SoR.
Wales wrote:
I noticed and this might all come down to getting more +spell dmg or something I am missing, that when we were fighting multi mob pulls the shaman was still in some cases able to peel a mob off of me but not on a boss fight.
DPS specced Shaman have a tendency to pull aggro, a lot. The hardest class/spec combos I find to tank with are Enhancmenet Shaman and Crit Chickens. Actually, I was in Kara Monday and one of our core Druis had recently gotten his Shaman to 70 and Kara keyed. He was in almost all greens, some blues, and with an unlucky string of crits he pulled aggro from the Warrior tank on one of those big robots after Curator, got himself head clapped, and fell over dead :P
Best thing you can do is give out Salvation to the DPS and hope they know how to control their aggro. If you are really having a tough time, find some spell damage gear/consumables and use those, but for the most part pre-70 it really shouldn't be necessary.
Wizzard oil is pretty cheap (around 1g for an hours buff), that on a high spell damage weapon (i'm still using a healing mace as it gives me the most spell damage i can find).
I use this sort of spell on trash:
Mark a skull, pull with av shield, judge righteousness (on skull), put up rightenus, holy shield, mobs reach me, concentration rank 1(yes rank 1, max if a big pull or hard hitting mobs), then i hit skull a bit and then on others judging on different targets. If i lose agro on skull then hammer of justice and let it die.
Rank one concentration is nice to put some extra damage on every mobs and is very cheap, to me it sounds like the concentration is the main thing causing you mana issues. If you get a shadow priest in your party that can really help, with a pally healer = 0 downtime :)
Also i find things soooo much easier if i'm the highest level in the group, and as said give everyone salv, if they're good then "maybe" something else.
I use this sort of spell on trash:
Mark a skull, pull with av shield, judge righteousness (on skull), put up rightenus, holy shield, mobs reach me, concentration rank 1(yes rank 1, max if a big pull or hard hitting mobs), then i hit skull a bit and then on others judging on different targets. If i lose agro on skull then hammer of justice and let it die.
Rank one concentration is nice to put some extra damage on every mobs and is very cheap, to me it sounds like the concentration is the main thing causing you mana issues. If you get a shadow priest in your party that can really help, with a pally healer = 0 downtime :)
Also i find things soooo much easier if i'm the highest level in the group, and as said give everyone salv, if they're good then "maybe" something else.
Wales wrote:
If I have a 3-4 targeted mob group I have the following textbook setup.
....
Consecration (On every cooldown)
.....
....
Consecration (On every cooldown)
.....
That is where you mana is going. Consecration takes about 10% of your mana each time you blast it, and if you are combining it with other spells, you could blow your mana in under a minute easily.
You only need consecration to grab the attention of mobs at the start. Once they start hitting your Retribution aura and Blessing of Sanctuary the reflected spell damage will hold them there, as long as everyone is attacking the main target. You can even use a lower level conscration to grab aggro from charging mobs, as long as no one else hits them the damage from just walking through it will pull them to you. Constant consecration should only be used when aoeing with mages or locks.
I normally spam all aggro building spells at the beginning of fight- judge crusador, fire shield, consecrate, judge righteousness as soon as it is ready, and once i get a good aggro lead just carry on hitting them with seal of righteousness and only judging once in a while. You can even jusdge wisdom if you have enough aggro and mana is a problem (not just for you, but for the casters and hunters).
As you get to harder fights, bring mana pots with you aswell as healing pots. Sometimes your health will be fine but your mana will be low and you need to pop a consecration to grab some wandering mobs. A mana pot can be the difference between surviving and a wipe (I also think all dps and healers should have health pots for the same but opposite reason....).
Ok, Brilliant Wizard Oilis a great add.
If you haven't done the Ring of Blood yet, Mogor's Anointing Club was a great upgrad for me.
Ironsole Clompers can be found in Ramps.
Light-Touched Breastplate can be found in Ramps also.
I'm trying to get some input on upgrading my gear also.
See here for more info when I get more responces.
If you haven't done the Ring of Blood yet, Mogor's Anointing Club was a great upgrad for me.
Ironsole Clompers can be found in Ramps.
Light-Touched Breastplate can be found in Ramps also.
I'm trying to get some input on upgrading my gear also.
See here for more info when I get more responces.
My apologies on the lateness of responding to your suggestions. I wanted to take a day or two to try some of these out before commenting. I took a lot of your suggestions and started tweaking them on my toon. Some of them have had immediate results on my tanking while others will take some practice in getting use to. Most of what was suggested I had already been doing but I am glad to see that most agree that it seems to be more a mana waste issue than anything with a needed touch of Salv to save the day. I also started buying more STM/DEF gear and am able to still maintain about +100 Spell Dmg. I want to thank you all for your time to respond to my post and for your assistance.
Wales,
I have to say I'm in the same boat as you =) I just dinged 66 last night and respec'd prot at 65.
My first run I tanked (and only true run with equal level members) was the Slave Pens. 2xHunters, Shadow Priest, Warlock & myself.
I know I could have given the hunters BoW or BoK because they are very good at shaking hate when played well. But I choose BoS because I am new to tankadin. Same went for the lock & priest. Needless to say I didn't have any agro problems except during Intimidating (sp) Shout & the Giant Bosses move where he turn away from you. The run went very smooth.
Next big thing was my mana. I found myself drinking alot at first. Once I got the hang of the zone/group (1st time there also) I tried messing with seals and spells. For that group I found after one Consecration that's all I needed. Only using a second if we had adds joining mid-fight. I found using SoR/JoR wasn't a mana hog. I did not judge on every cooldown, only spell I spammed whenever possible was Holy Shield (full rank). Only realy judging when switching to the next kill target, or when the 30sec was almost up.
For bosses I used JoC+SoV, and judged JoV every chance I could, giving Holy Shield priority.
Still much to learn! Thanks for posting a very usefull thread!
Kz
I have to say I'm in the same boat as you =) I just dinged 66 last night and respec'd prot at 65.
My first run I tanked (and only true run with equal level members) was the Slave Pens. 2xHunters, Shadow Priest, Warlock & myself.
I know I could have given the hunters BoW or BoK because they are very good at shaking hate when played well. But I choose BoS because I am new to tankadin. Same went for the lock & priest. Needless to say I didn't have any agro problems except during Intimidating (sp) Shout & the Giant Bosses move where he turn away from you. The run went very smooth.
Next big thing was my mana. I found myself drinking alot at first. Once I got the hang of the zone/group (1st time there also) I tried messing with seals and spells. For that group I found after one Consecration that's all I needed. Only using a second if we had adds joining mid-fight. I found using SoR/JoR wasn't a mana hog. I did not judge on every cooldown, only spell I spammed whenever possible was Holy Shield (full rank). Only realy judging when switching to the next kill target, or when the 30sec was almost up.
For bosses I used JoC+SoV, and judged JoV every chance I could, giving Holy Shield priority.
Still much to learn! Thanks for posting a very usefull thread!
Kz
Recent Visitors: 182
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (182)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Looking to maximize my tanking effectiveness
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC