hey guys,
i had a 70 warrior a while ago and sold it and took a break from wow. i was prot and enjoyed tanking but at 70 it was kinda tough. ive came bak to wow with a pally, and am at lvl 26. ive been tanking a lot and find it a ton easier. even with multiple mobs i find it easy to hold them all using consecration. is it simply easier for pallys to hold aggro? or did i just suck with my warrior? or does it get much harder for pallys later on?
any help wood be great
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pally vs. warrior tankingFollow
You know, it would be nice if someone made a nice long detailed sticky post detailing all the ins and outs of being a pally tank...
Pallies are the king of multi mob threat. Their aggro is also front loaded since they don't have to wait on rage which makes it nice in 5 mans or Kara where mobs tend to die fast.
A well played Druid/Prot War will always win on single target threat per second. That along with certain features will always see a Warrior be preferrable to a Prot Pally over a tank in end game raiding.
If you are just goofing around and have not plans on going hardcore raiding then Prot Pally works for you. They do great in 5 mans, heroics and even Kara. They do well beyond that as well it is just that you will often find yourself OT an add, not tanking the main boss.
A well played Druid/Prot War will always win on single target threat per second. That along with certain features will always see a Warrior be preferrable to a Prot Pally over a tank in end game raiding.
If you are just goofing around and have not plans on going hardcore raiding then Prot Pally works for you. They do great in 5 mans, heroics and even Kara. They do well beyond that as well it is just that you will often find yourself OT an add, not tanking the main boss.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
hcddog wrote:
You know, it would be nice if someone made a nice long detailed sticky post detailing all the ins and outs of being a pally tank...
This post seems familiar somehow.
bodhisattva wrote:
They do well beyond that as well it is just that you will often find yourself OT an add, not tanking the main boss.
Indeed. Having a prot paladin in your raid in addition to two prot warriors and a tanking druid gives you a versatile raid that's ready for most situations it encounters.
But that prot paladin likely won't be main tanking most bosses.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
But that prot paladin likely won't be main tanking most bosses.
Which is true, but if you're like me, it doesn't really matter. I have tanked everything in Kara except Nightbane, Nalorakk and Halazzi in ZA, but the rest of the bosses we have fought in Grull's/TK/SSC I generally have been putting on my healing gear. I don't like to, but it's what we need at the time, and I'm ok with that.
Being said, I get the most enjoyment personally out of AOE tanking: Akil'zon's gauntlet in ZA and the packs leading to Halazzi are much easier to handle with me grouping them all up than having a Warrior do it and focusing each down. Various trash packs in SSC that we have come up against have some minor enemies that I am in charge of grouping up and AOEing down while taking one of the main targets as well.
If you want all power, glory, and honor to u Warrior is the way to go, but imo Paladin tanking is much more enjoyable, and we still fill a very good role taht any other tank would lack in.
Maulgak wrote:
If you want all power, glory, and honor to u Warrior is the way to go
See, I think this is what holds back Efficient Tanking most. "Power"? "Glory"? Isn't the whole point actually downing the boss? Do the healers who patch the raid instead of spam the MT have less merit in the process? Are the DPS assigned to add duty lesser players for it?
As long as a tank, of whatever class, procrastinates too much (not saying Maulgak does, reacting to the language) on what tanking duty is most glorious, he'll be limited in a similar sense than those DPSers who obsess more over the Damage Meters than the fight itself.
The glory is downing the boss, with your raid. Sufficiently deep in an instance, using a tankadin or a druid on the trash may just have made a difference in how far you could get in one evening. Downing the boss may be the icing on the cake, but if you never reach him, nobody gets any glory at all.
The most important thing is getting the job done. I remember once having a discussion with a young warlock who didn't like to banish on Garr in MC because it cut into his damage output. This notion of specific glory attached to boss meatshielding comes from the same mentality, and it holds back those who believe in it.
A raid functions as an organism. Is the heart more glorious than the lungs?
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 2:01pm by Alastaironsiren
well said alas, and thanks to everyone for their unput
Alastaironsiren wrote:
A raid functions as an organism. Is the heart more glorious than the lungs?
More glorious? I dunno.
More tasty?
Alastaironsiren wrote:
A raid functions as an organism. Is the heart more glorious than the lungs?
Well put :) While each role in downing a boss is as "glorious" as the next, simply put, there's a stigma people give to a MT that isn't given to an OT. I like to think of a raid group as a football team ( I LOVE football!). The linemen are just as important as the rest of the team, but how often do you see a lineman getting the player of the game? MVP? Heisman? No, it's almost always a quarterback or reciever/running back.
People just will react differently if you can say, "I was MT for Illidan!", then if you say, "I OT in Black Temple and threw on my healing gear for Illidan."
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 12:35pm by Maulgak
bodhisattva wrote:
Pallies are the king of multi mob threat. Their aggro is also front loaded since they don't have to wait on rage which makes it nice in 5 mans or Kara where mobs tend to die fast.
I've always wondered why people say this? I kind of implies to me that we aren't so good at single target aggro... We can hold target on a single target as well as we can on multiple targets which is pretty well. Tonight the guild tried Void rever for the first time, we wiped at 60% due to half the raid dying, but for tanks it is basically an aggro race.
I was against the guilds two main tanks, a full t4 druid and a full t4 warrior, me 2 piece t4 and the badge chest. I was well clear of them aggro wise all the way through the fight, including the aggro reducing knockback which is supposed to switch targets. He doesn't hit that hard I guess, so I stayed alive till the last healers died each run, but holding aggro on 1 target certainly wasn't a problem.
I think tankadins and warrior tanks are very similar nowadays in terms of abilty to tank, the only difference is the style of tanking. Druids are a completly different kettle of fish with their insane armour, high HP, but no shield. Fully raid buffed my tankadin was only 1k HP shy of the warrior (who has better gear) with similar armour, defence, and avoidance.
Quote:
I've always wondered why people say this? I kind of implies to me that we aren't so good at single target aggro... We can hold target on a single target as well as we can on multiple targets which is pretty well.
Well, that's the thing. You generate (more or less) the same aggro to multiple targets as you do to a single target. As a general rule, that's less than you'd see from a comparably-geared Warrior on a single target but a hell of a lot more than you'd see on multiple targets.
This depends on the level of gearing, though. A Warrior in Kara gear is going to get out-TPS'd by a Protadin, but once you start getting Expertise for the Warrior that won't be the case.
Quote:
Indeed. Having a prot paladin in your raid in addition to two prot warriors and a tanking druid gives you a versatile raid that's ready for most situations it encounters.
I can't think of a single encounter you'd really _want_ four tanks for. I guess Karathress, but you can easily OT one target (either Hunter or Priest, depending on kill order) with a DPS Warrior in tanking gear.
RPZip wrote:
Quote:
I've always wondered why people say this? I kind of implies to me that we aren't so good at single target aggro... We can hold target on a single target as well as we can on multiple targets which is pretty well.
Well, that's the thing. You generate (more or less) the same aggro to multiple targets as you do to a single target. As a general rule, that's less than you'd see from a comparably-geared Warrior on a single target but a hell of a lot more than you'd see on multiple targets.
Another thing to consider is how difficult it is for a Paladin to gain threat on a target that is not beating on the Paladin's shield/Ret Aura. If a Warrior loses threat they have some high aggro moves that will help them regain that threat after their taunt. Paladins do not have that ******* as our threat is mostly reactive.
EDIT: just realized I screwed up the quote, lol. Fixed.
Edited, Jan 9th 2008 8:31pm by Maulgak
It seems to me that a holy pally, priest and resto druid, shaman all have up-n-downs that differ. But, can all do the healing job well.
Same goes for Rouge, Hunter, Mage, Fury Warrior, ect... for DPS.
I look at Pally, druid & warrior tanking the same way. Each can do the job well, but all have their up-n-downs. Granted there are some encounters where one shines over the others, but that’s what Blizz choose to use to eliminate the "super tank". If you remember in pre-TBC content the warrior was almost exclusively the only true tank because of gear and the "need" for heals/cleansers. Now all 3 classes have exceptional tanking gear to compliment there other sets & good abilities to hold single/multiple mob agro.
Any MTing job is not easy. You will have a high stress level from always "reading the moment". I would not say it's easier to hold agro for any class over the others because each require very good use of abilities & timing. To top that off, there is a good chance in PUGs that you're leading and pulling. If you didn't enjoy tanking as a warrior chances are you either need a better group to raid with, or maybe a new class route (DPS, healer...).
Bonus to pally is if you don't like tanking, you can always be a healer =) ...DPS for pally is lacking thou in raid content unless your godly-geared.
Kz
Same goes for Rouge, Hunter, Mage, Fury Warrior, ect... for DPS.
I look at Pally, druid & warrior tanking the same way. Each can do the job well, but all have their up-n-downs. Granted there are some encounters where one shines over the others, but that’s what Blizz choose to use to eliminate the "super tank". If you remember in pre-TBC content the warrior was almost exclusively the only true tank because of gear and the "need" for heals/cleansers. Now all 3 classes have exceptional tanking gear to compliment there other sets & good abilities to hold single/multiple mob agro.
Any MTing job is not easy. You will have a high stress level from always "reading the moment". I would not say it's easier to hold agro for any class over the others because each require very good use of abilities & timing. To top that off, there is a good chance in PUGs that you're leading and pulling. If you didn't enjoy tanking as a warrior chances are you either need a better group to raid with, or maybe a new class route (DPS, healer...).
Bonus to pally is if you don't like tanking, you can always be a healer =) ...DPS for pally is lacking thou in raid content unless your godly-geared.
Kz
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