I've got a lvl 35 mage (frosty), and am pretty much looking to level by running instances in 5-mans - PvE. I like running instances....what can I say...:)
However, it seems that a lot of my frost talents are more geared toward solo play rather than running 5-man instances (other than Ice Block).
Would it make sense to switch to fire? I'm just not sure if which spec would better to help out a group. Gnomeregan was fun since you could play with AoE on non-elites. But I don't see much of that anymore moving forward.
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Frost is a decent tree for grouping, though most players use it for soloing. The way to "help out your group" is to do more damage so stuff gets killed faster, and frost definitely puts out some good DPS at lower levels. However, once you start getting down the fire tree, it starts to pull ahead. Though I must admit, playing around with a water elemental is kinda fun and I did miss ice barrier and my IB "Oh ****" button when I respecced.
Your question basically comes down to the age-old mage question: Which does more damage...fire or frost? And, as of now, fire does more damage than frost does. But if you absolutely hate playing fire, then by all means go with frost.
Or you could be a rebel and go arcane.
Your question basically comes down to the age-old mage question: Which does more damage...fire or frost? And, as of now, fire does more damage than frost does. But if you absolutely hate playing fire, then by all means go with frost.
Or you could be a rebel and go arcane.
At low levels I wouldn't worry much about playing fire or frost, the better you can do to not overcome the tank's aggro the better.
I've got Omen, so as long as the tank also has a threat meter, I will never exceed the tank threat.
Of course, there are a bunch of tanks without threat meters, so it makes me hold back a bit to ensure I don't pull aggro.
For frost, the whole frostbite & shatter thing is pretty much useless in a group (there are exceptions, but I wouldn't spec around rare occurrences). Since the target you are hitting is being slammed by everyone else, they won't stay frozen. Slowing a mob is good for runners, but either spec can throw out a frostbolt when the mob's health is low. IB is the one talent that I would miss.
For fire, it just seems that all talents are focused on more damage, which appears to have more grouping utility for 5-man instances.
I was just wondering if I was missing something. If fire doesn't really give me a significant increase in supporting a group, then I'll just stay frost so that I can live longer :)
Of course, there are a bunch of tanks without threat meters, so it makes me hold back a bit to ensure I don't pull aggro.
For frost, the whole frostbite & shatter thing is pretty much useless in a group (there are exceptions, but I wouldn't spec around rare occurrences). Since the target you are hitting is being slammed by everyone else, they won't stay frozen. Slowing a mob is good for runners, but either spec can throw out a frostbolt when the mob's health is low. IB is the one talent that I would miss.
For fire, it just seems that all talents are focused on more damage, which appears to have more grouping utility for 5-man instances.
I was just wondering if I was missing something. If fire doesn't really give me a significant increase in supporting a group, then I'll just stay frost so that I can live longer :)
Both are viable for groups. I have always been fire - it did more damage when I was at a lower lvl, so i stuck with it - I'm surprised now to find that most people go Frost. I thought frost was for 40+... Anyway, I digress...
You can use either. I have run several instances as a fire, and ran a few where we had two mages, me and a frost. I always have nice crits and better damage, but from the perspective of good/bad yes/no - both fire and frost work. In the lower lvl instances - you just need good damage. Both will produce good dps. Is fire a bit more - yes, does it matter - No.
I have never seen an Arcane in an instance, but did farm along side of one. He and I were running side by side along the coast of South Shore - quest where you kill murlocs. Anyway - As a fire I was much more efficient. We were not teamed and I finished way faster. Was able to handle more mobs, and able to quickly bring them down....
You can use either. I have run several instances as a fire, and ran a few where we had two mages, me and a frost. I always have nice crits and better damage, but from the perspective of good/bad yes/no - both fire and frost work. In the lower lvl instances - you just need good damage. Both will produce good dps. Is fire a bit more - yes, does it matter - No.
I have never seen an Arcane in an instance, but did farm along side of one. He and I were running side by side along the coast of South Shore - quest where you kill murlocs. Anyway - As a fire I was much more efficient. We were not teamed and I finished way faster. Was able to handle more mobs, and able to quickly bring them down....
I was full frost from level 1 to 70, 0/0/51. I switched a few months back to 40/0/21 for raiding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with frost grouping.
I leveled my mage mostly in instances as I loathe questing. You will be just fine. The talents that stack on mobs and add frost damage make you very viable in instances all the way to 70. I only respecced to get that extra bang that arcane gives.
Althought I may be respeccing again soon with the new icy veins talent =)
I leveled my mage mostly in instances as I loathe questing. You will be just fine. The talents that stack on mobs and add frost damage make you very viable in instances all the way to 70. I only respecced to get that extra bang that arcane gives.
Althought I may be respeccing again soon with the new icy veins talent =)
Like Anobix said, it doesn't matter what spec. Just remember that you can cast spells from all three schools and use all levels of spells learned (level 1 frost bolt for example).
As a fire mage running through SM, I noticed (AND was told) I was drawing too much aggro from the tanks. So I started alternating between lvl 1 frost bolt and main scorch on the mob the tank had engaged 1st. That way, I could keep the target slowed during the entire fight and build up fire damage slowly by stacking the scorches AND keeping aggro away from me. Once the mob health was down to 25%, I fired up the main nuke and ended the fight. Move to next target. We discovered the fights were quicker and less healing was needed. I ran with a mostly pre-made group but even with PuG's it worked very well and was appreciated.
Playing this way makes the group want to go faster, as it seems they are mowing things down easily (which they are thanks to YOU). So, be sure to drink after every fight and even if they start another, don't jump in until you are at full mana or close to it if they need rescuing. I would also hang back next to the healer during a fight and if a mob was drawn to them, you can solo it or sheep it, keeping the healer healing and not fighting.
Yes, I do think doing tons of damage is important, but it is also important NOT to draw aggro and that is the line you walk as a mage in a group. We are a support unit not the tank (mostly). Using AoE's in a group will draw every mob to you and draw the ire of the entire group once you die, with time lost to rez or run. I can only answer regarding pre-50 instances, as I have not reached the raiding levels yet. I would assume, however, that our role doesn't change much.
So, in final answer to your main question: I agree with Anobix regarding spec (Doesn't matter), don't forget your role in a group and remember you can use all schools and all levels of spells learned.
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Thamage -- Lvl 52 Undead Mage - Duskwood
Hulkababy -- Lvl 22 Orc Hunter - Maelstrom
As a fire mage running through SM, I noticed (AND was told) I was drawing too much aggro from the tanks. So I started alternating between lvl 1 frost bolt and main scorch on the mob the tank had engaged 1st. That way, I could keep the target slowed during the entire fight and build up fire damage slowly by stacking the scorches AND keeping aggro away from me. Once the mob health was down to 25%, I fired up the main nuke and ended the fight. Move to next target. We discovered the fights were quicker and less healing was needed. I ran with a mostly pre-made group but even with PuG's it worked very well and was appreciated.
Playing this way makes the group want to go faster, as it seems they are mowing things down easily (which they are thanks to YOU). So, be sure to drink after every fight and even if they start another, don't jump in until you are at full mana or close to it if they need rescuing. I would also hang back next to the healer during a fight and if a mob was drawn to them, you can solo it or sheep it, keeping the healer healing and not fighting.
Yes, I do think doing tons of damage is important, but it is also important NOT to draw aggro and that is the line you walk as a mage in a group. We are a support unit not the tank (mostly). Using AoE's in a group will draw every mob to you and draw the ire of the entire group once you die, with time lost to rez or run. I can only answer regarding pre-50 instances, as I have not reached the raiding levels yet. I would assume, however, that our role doesn't change much.
So, in final answer to your main question: I agree with Anobix regarding spec (Doesn't matter), don't forget your role in a group and remember you can use all schools and all levels of spells learned.
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Thamage -- Lvl 52 Undead Mage - Duskwood
Hulkababy -- Lvl 22 Orc Hunter - Maelstrom
I would level through dungeons if I had a static 5 man group, but waiting on PUGs to form and summon makes me despise that route. Because of that I don't chain run the same dungeons too often while leveling.
Anyway if I was leveling almost strictly through dungeons I'd go fire for the damage potential, but then again I know how to never pull aggro
Having played every tanking class to at least 30+ helped alot, I can see certain things they're doing, and I know when I'm set to start dps (I had a 36 dwarf warrior who I don't play at all anymore). On tanks who don't know what they're doing theres always the option of scaling way back on fire damage, or opening with rank 1 scorches. With good tanks you can really go all out, as long as you're on the right mob and you gave them a decent head start.
So I'd like fire, especially since 2.3.2 with trainable ice block in case of an aggro pull (don't rely on this, but its a decent panic button). Just remember its not an aggro dump, and odds are if the tank lost aggro and you pulled, after ice block the mobs are probably going right to your healer. So be careful with it.
Anyway if I was leveling almost strictly through dungeons I'd go fire for the damage potential, but then again I know how to never pull aggro
Having played every tanking class to at least 30+ helped alot, I can see certain things they're doing, and I know when I'm set to start dps (I had a 36 dwarf warrior who I don't play at all anymore). On tanks who don't know what they're doing theres always the option of scaling way back on fire damage, or opening with rank 1 scorches. With good tanks you can really go all out, as long as you're on the right mob and you gave them a decent head start.
So I'd like fire, especially since 2.3.2 with trainable ice block in case of an aggro pull (don't rely on this, but its a decent panic button). Just remember its not an aggro dump, and odds are if the tank lost aggro and you pulled, after ice block the mobs are probably going right to your healer. So be careful with it.
Thanks all for the advice.
I just wanted to best support the groups (will be mostly PUGs). I do understand tanking and threat control, so I'm not worried about pulling aggro from the tank.
#1 goal in running groups is to never need healing (i.e. never pull aggro).
#2 goal is CC as needed.
#3 is damage output.
I've pretty much got #1 and #2 down....so I'm working on #3 :) I think I might switch to Fire, then back to frost when I am high enough for the Elemental :)
I just wanted to best support the groups (will be mostly PUGs). I do understand tanking and threat control, so I'm not worried about pulling aggro from the tank.
#1 goal in running groups is to never need healing (i.e. never pull aggro).
#2 goal is CC as needed.
#3 is damage output.
I've pretty much got #1 and #2 down....so I'm working on #3 :) I think I might switch to Fire, then back to frost when I am high enough for the Elemental :)
YJMark wrote:
Thanks all for the advice.
I just wanted to best support the groups (will be mostly PUGs). I do understand tanking and threat control, so I'm not worried about pulling aggro from the tank.
#1 goal in running groups is to never need healing (i.e. never pull aggro).
#2 goal is CC as needed.
#3 is damage output.
I've pretty much got #1 and #2 down....so I'm working on #3 :) I think I might switch to Fire, then back to frost when I am high enough for the Elemental :)
I just wanted to best support the groups (will be mostly PUGs). I do understand tanking and threat control, so I'm not worried about pulling aggro from the tank.
#1 goal in running groups is to never need healing (i.e. never pull aggro).
#2 goal is CC as needed.
#3 is damage output.
I've pretty much got #1 and #2 down....so I'm working on #3 :) I think I might switch to Fire, then back to frost when I am high enough for the Elemental :)
IMO, I would put cc ahead of needing to get healed. If you cc properly, the tank has an easier time tanking, and you will never need to be healed. Getting hit sometimes is a fact of the game, tank misses, taunts resists, etc. Being a mage and starting to tank bc instances with my druid, I can say the best thing you can do is pay attention.
11 posts
Is it possible to level just by doing 5-mans? Would it be faster then doing quests?
Leveling is so much faster questing now it isn't even funny.
I'm not in any rush to get to lvl 70. I actually enjoy running 5-mans. The teamwork and comraderie are great. I do solo some, but really enjoy the social part of running 5-mans.
This is one of my alts, so all is good. Keeping professions maxed out at lowest levels possible, and just having fun. The only quests I really focus on are ones that have gear I want, or are in the area I feel like checking out.
Honestly, I'm not psyched to grind for rep, gear, money, or any crap like that. Grinding is the most boring thing ever...and sometimes questing seems like grinding to me. But that is just me :)
Maybe that is why my fishing skills on all my toons is really low......
This is one of my alts, so all is good. Keeping professions maxed out at lowest levels possible, and just having fun. The only quests I really focus on are ones that have gear I want, or are in the area I feel like checking out.
Honestly, I'm not psyched to grind for rep, gear, money, or any crap like that. Grinding is the most boring thing ever...and sometimes questing seems like grinding to me. But that is just me :)
Maybe that is why my fishing skills on all my toons is really low......
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