A few months ago I finally convinced my brother to respec his Arms/Fury hybrid nightmare into the more streamlined Arms/Prot hybrid from the sticky. I thought it would be a great "intro to tanking spec".
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMcbAbog0dbZVZcitoh0z
So far it has worked great and he has been much more effective as a main tank. We have recently hit 70 and have been looking into our specs in preparation of starting in on level 70 instances and eventually heriocs. I switched my Pally over to full Holy and have advised him that perhaps it's time to switch over his warrior to full Prot. To say he is hesitant would be an understatement. He really doesn't want to lose all of his Arms dps and talents.
It's his character, and I don't have the right to "force" him to respec. But we initially teamed up my pally and his warrior so that we would always have a tank and healer in instances.
Here is my question: How long can the spec I linked hope to main-tank? I think he will be fine for normal instances...but heriocs?
I actually hope I'm wrong and that his spec will work for Heriocs. Would save me the hassle of convincing him to respec again. (I'm still trying to get him to actually start collecting tanking gear instead of tossing +def stuff because it "doesn't have as much STR or crit".)
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If that's how he wants to play his character, I think your best bet is to either
a) You tank, and look for a healer when you group together, or
b) You heal, and look for a tank when you group together
One that I find particularly WTF about that spec is that he has Shield Specialization and Improved Shield Block, but at the same time he has Two-Handed Weapon Specialization. He's not even DPSing that well in this spec because he's wasting DPS talents on things like Improved Shield Block and Shield Spec, and he's not tanking well because he's wasting tanking talents on things like Impale and Two-Handed Weapon Spec.
Basically it sounds to me like you both started out with the intention of always having a tank and a healer together, and later on he finds out he doesn't like tanking. It's a lose/lose situation, if you force him into tanking he's not going to enjoy it, and if let him DPS which is what he clearly wants to do, you're going to have to look for a tank or a healer when you group.
a) You tank, and look for a healer when you group together, or
b) You heal, and look for a tank when you group together
One that I find particularly WTF about that spec is that he has Shield Specialization and Improved Shield Block, but at the same time he has Two-Handed Weapon Specialization. He's not even DPSing that well in this spec because he's wasting DPS talents on things like Improved Shield Block and Shield Spec, and he's not tanking well because he's wasting tanking talents on things like Impale and Two-Handed Weapon Spec.
Basically it sounds to me like you both started out with the intention of always having a tank and a healer together, and later on he finds out he doesn't like tanking. It's a lose/lose situation, if you force him into tanking he's not going to enjoy it, and if let him DPS which is what he clearly wants to do, you're going to have to look for a tank or a healer when you group.
I'm hoping that he will see the light and spec over to Prot...but I'm not going to start telling him how he should play. If he just wants to dps he needs to respec...but what if he wants to keep tanking? My question is could he continue to use this build? And if yes...how long?
To clarify your "WTF" moment. His previous build had points spread out everywhere. He had one or two points in what seemed like all of the Arms/Fury talents. He didn't seem to have any overall concept of what he wanted to do. For example...he had DW spec and only used 2-h weapons. He didn't have ANY points in Prot yet he was forced to tank in every instance we went into. His spec was a mess.
I pulled this build off of the sticky as a way to maintain his dps while giving him some of the core tanking talents for the numerous times he is forced to go sword and board (i.e. shield block). It's been a great build because it has exposed him to some of the concepts of warrior tanking while allowing him to still get some good dps out of his 2-h weapon (which for the moment is a sword).
I am fully aware that it is neither the best dps build or the best tanking build. It is a hybrid build which I personally think has served it's purpose very well.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 12:14pm by Paladense
To clarify your "WTF" moment. His previous build had points spread out everywhere. He had one or two points in what seemed like all of the Arms/Fury talents. He didn't seem to have any overall concept of what he wanted to do. For example...he had DW spec and only used 2-h weapons. He didn't have ANY points in Prot yet he was forced to tank in every instance we went into. His spec was a mess.
I pulled this build off of the sticky as a way to maintain his dps while giving him some of the core tanking talents for the numerous times he is forced to go sword and board (i.e. shield block). It's been a great build because it has exposed him to some of the concepts of warrior tanking while allowing him to still get some good dps out of his 2-h weapon (which for the moment is a sword).
I am fully aware that it is neither the best dps build or the best tanking build. It is a hybrid build which I personally think has served it's purpose very well.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 12:14pm by Paladense
Maybe you should stop telling him how and what to do and let him play the game.
Honestly, even though you may see it as the best of intentions for both of you, he may not see it that way. One of two things will be the outcome of such situations. Either he switches to your way, dislikes his lack of DPS he is putting out and doesn't like going pure tank and gets fed up and quites playing. Or, he decides to stick with the route he is going, you get frustrated that he isn't changing to how you want him to be and you quite.
The easiest solution is (as someone suggested), let him go the route he wants to go, advice him on how to be the best at whatever path he chooses and work with that, by finding another tank when running things.
Honestly, even though you may see it as the best of intentions for both of you, he may not see it that way. One of two things will be the outcome of such situations. Either he switches to your way, dislikes his lack of DPS he is putting out and doesn't like going pure tank and gets fed up and quites playing. Or, he decides to stick with the route he is going, you get frustrated that he isn't changing to how you want him to be and you quite.
The easiest solution is (as someone suggested), let him go the route he wants to go, advice him on how to be the best at whatever path he chooses and work with that, by finding another tank when running things.
OK...Maybe I was a little unclear on this note. I'm in no way, shape, or form trying to tell him how he should play. If he wants to dps we can find a tank. If he wants to tank then ok...we don't need to find a tank. It doesn't personally affect how I play my character or how much enjoyment I get out of the game. He is playing that character...not me.
We are both grown men and neither one of us stands for the other one telling him what to do. The thing is...he asks me for my opinion on builds, equipment, etc. I've been playing longer and visit these forums a lot. He isn't really interested in reading up on the class and prefers just playing the game. I understand this and do my best to steer him in the right direction when I can.
So my question isn't how can I better interact with my older brother. Neither one of us takes the game so seriously that we would argue about it or quit playing because of something like a spec. But thanks for the advice.
The question is....how long can he reasonably expect the build I posted to work as main tank.
Edit: spelling
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 12:36pm by Paladense
We are both grown men and neither one of us stands for the other one telling him what to do. The thing is...he asks me for my opinion on builds, equipment, etc. I've been playing longer and visit these forums a lot. He isn't really interested in reading up on the class and prefers just playing the game. I understand this and do my best to steer him in the right direction when I can.
So my question isn't how can I better interact with my older brother. Neither one of us takes the game so seriously that we would argue about it or quit playing because of something like a spec. But thanks for the advice.
The question is....how long can he reasonably expect the build I posted to work as main tank.
Edit: spelling
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 12:36pm by Paladense
He should be fine tanking all normal instances, and possibly Off-tanking kara.
How much does he use concussion blow btw? I get it so I can get SS but dont use it so much, maybe I should use it more often when I spec prot...
How much does he use concussion blow btw? I get it so I can get SS but dont use it so much, maybe I should use it more often when I spec prot...
Thanks Imtar. He actually uses Conc. Blow quite a bit (even when he is not tanking). I've also found it to be incrediably useful on my Prot warrior. It's always nice to stun a mob, but it's especially handy as a backup interupt when fighting a caster or mobs with some variety of enrage. Once in a while he will lead into a fight with Conc Blow and once it ends I'll hit them with my Pally stun. By the time the mob recovers it is mostly dead and never even touched us.
It's a great talent...just keep in mind that it (like all stuns) doesn't work on most bosses.
It's a great talent...just keep in mind that it (like all stuns) doesn't work on most bosses.
Quote:
It's a great talent...just keep in mind that it (like all stuns) doesn't work on most bosses.
But it works great in PVP :) There's nothing like timing it just right. Pally low on health and about to hit the bubble? Bang. Enjoy your corpse run. Rogue about to die but about to pop vanish? Bang. Not so fast. Charge a lock or priest who is ready to insta-fear you? Bang. Have a seat. Good times :)
True it can miss or be dodged, but when it lands it's a nice talent.
Cheers,
Jorge
Quote:
But it works great in PVP :) There's nothing like timing it just right. Pally low on health and about to hit the bubble? Bang. Enjoy your corpse run. Rogue about to die but about to pop vanish? Bang. Not so fast. Charge a lock or priest who is ready to insta-fear you? Bang. Have a seat. Good times :)
Concussion blow has saved me many times during a Halaa raid. Even during PvE I use it every chance I get.
As far as the OP's question, he should be able to tank all normal instances just fine. I tanked all the level 70 instances in normal mode with less points in prot than your brother has. I will say that it becomes easier once you spec full prot. I don't know if I would go into heroics with that spec, but so long as he has the required 490 defense with 11k stam, why not give it a shot?
In PvE I only use it as a backup to Shield Bash and Spell Reflect if a mob is casting something. I don't like the mob to be stunned in general, because when it's stunned it means I'm not generating rage from damage received.
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I don't like the mob to be stunned in general, because when it's stunned it means I'm not generating rage from damage received.
I used to think the same thing. But I've found that as a DW prot warrior, I can generate plenty of rage by spamming devastate on a stunned target without having it hit me. Plus with the mob not hitting me I can grind that much longer before having to eat/bandage.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 5:57pm by Tirinand
for heroics, it'll be kinda hard to tank in that spec without some rather nice gear. it isn't about survivability so much as threat generation. when warriors put prot gear on and are not prot, it is really hard to generate proper threat. Sure we have HS and Revenge, which are really nice threat generators, and sunder helps...
but tanking gear focuses on survivability and shield block values. stamina, avoidance, armor, shield block values/rating. which do not translate to threat without shield slam.
so as for tanking gear that he'll acquire, he'll perform weaker as his tanking gear improves. unless he specs shield slam, or min/maxes dps gear into his tanking gear.
Which for pre-heroic instances, is just fine. I used to use a very similar spec for tanking that included imp ms of all things. but that was before TM applied a threat bonus while in defensive stance to MS/BT.
imp shield block isn't all that important unless you are trying to push crushing blows off the hit table (which only skull boss mobs can do). so taking imp shield block is not needed.
blood frenzy is a nice talent, but again, it's only 4% of a dps increase to physical dpsers. which in 25 man raids, is a seriously huge overall raid dps boost. but for 5 mans, it's weaker talent points.
you can have 0 points in prot and tank any normal instance. or you can do like i've done and tank almost all of steam vaults in berserker stance with a 2h out. it really depends on your healers and dps TPS out puts, and your survivability. avoidance tanking for heroics FTW.
but tanking gear focuses on survivability and shield block values. stamina, avoidance, armor, shield block values/rating. which do not translate to threat without shield slam.
so as for tanking gear that he'll acquire, he'll perform weaker as his tanking gear improves. unless he specs shield slam, or min/maxes dps gear into his tanking gear.
Which for pre-heroic instances, is just fine. I used to use a very similar spec for tanking that included imp ms of all things. but that was before TM applied a threat bonus while in defensive stance to MS/BT.
imp shield block isn't all that important unless you are trying to push crushing blows off the hit table (which only skull boss mobs can do). so taking imp shield block is not needed.
blood frenzy is a nice talent, but again, it's only 4% of a dps increase to physical dpsers. which in 25 man raids, is a seriously huge overall raid dps boost. but for 5 mans, it's weaker talent points.
you can have 0 points in prot and tank any normal instance. or you can do like i've done and tank almost all of steam vaults in berserker stance with a 2h out. it really depends on your healers and dps TPS out puts, and your survivability. avoidance tanking for heroics FTW.
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