Giving it one more try..... Follow

for trash it depends entirely on how long the mob lasts. less than 15seconds. just SB. less than 20. immolate + SB. less than 25-30, cor, imm, SB. 30+, chuck in all your dots. siphon life though probably isn't worth it other than on bosses.

mmm i think she means she got crit for 9.5k damage not made that damage, u should try cast corr on the non main target and cast corr+sb on the main one,if u have nightfall u might as well get a free sb cast

It sounds like your pally tanks could use some work, or maybe you were starting too early? I've done some SL runs with pally tanks where practically the only spell I used was seed of corruption (except for bosses). Ask your pally how much spell damage he/she has, thats their mana threat builder. A pally should easily be able to off tank mobs that you dot up, I suspect this tanks methods are slightly off, or not enough spell damage.

Ideally for a tanking weapon your pally tank should grab the gladiator spell damage mace (+200) and enchant it with +40 spell damage, then all their other gear should be stam/defense type stuff for kara.



Nah you should be fine dotting everything not being CC'd. And if its a pally tanking, SoC should be fine so long as the non CC'd mobs are far enough away that seeds won't break traps + shackles.

Maybe armory link to tanks?



Sometimes its important to find the root of the cause though, the tank really doesn't sound like he/she is holding aggro in the first place. I'd look into why thats the case, instead of blindly throwing salv around and telling everyone to slow down.

Of course you have to wait a little to start dps, thats common sense, but it sounds like a threat issue from the tanks perspective to me. Not generating enough, and if its a problem on trash it could definately escalate to a problem on boss fights. Hopefully the pally tank is roughly around 12k+ health unbuffed, 490 defense and 200 spell damage.

Edited, Jan 6th 2008 1:22pm by mikelolol

ahh, kk. miss read and ya, trash mobs from kara (heck even heroics) onwards do more than 6k damage a hit easily so pulling hate is never advisable.

Sethy, do you think I could have a peek at your build, please? Thanks in advance.

I've only been in Kara a couple times, and Heroics even less, but what I typically do is Siphon Life, Corr, CoA, Life Tap and then Drain Life. Not as much damage as SBs, but that's less aggro too, and I don't have to drink. Don't top out the DPS with this, but as a 'lock I don't expect to on trash.

Havn't been able to get a SH group yet.

Though yeah, I DoT the heck out of bosses, and am usually on top there. Just on trash I try to hold back as I know with multiple things to tank and whatnot it can be harder for a tank to hold aggro on all of them, so I hold back some. Usually have a warrior tank too, and our Paladin tank off-tanks, so I'm almost never hitting it with anything, other than maybe Corr for an extra Nightfall proc here and there, but on trash, I generally won't throw the SB unless it's gonna finish the mob off, or a Shadowburn following it will.

Doing this, as I said I typically don't top the meters, but I am in the top 3, and on bosses, I am at the top.

With pally tank and mage in group (for freezing and additional aoe) you can have lots of fun with Seed on elites in normal instances like SH.
I cast SL on 3-4 of them and start SoCing... its looks like everything gets blown up... fun :)

I cant really CC, Sederix, because I sac pets, I only use succy now if we are running heroic without mage/hunter, just in case. Otherwise I sac either VW for hp regen to stress my healer less or Felpup for mana when I expect mana issues.
Saccing succy I dont find worth for trash or normal instances.

Halfway to exalted with HH and no pattern drop yet :/



Edited, Jan 15th 2008 3:31pm by Sethy

My main is a pally and some items your friend should look into, if he/she doesnt have them are two mods, grid (really GREAT tool!) and omen threatmeter, you can look up ACE2 and some other sites to download the mods, dont have them readily available.

Additionally, it sound to me like this isnt the case with you, but the priority for me is my healer. I prefer a dedicated healer if at all possible, so I have righteous defense with blessing of protection macroed in that when RD is on its 15 sec cooldown it will cast BOP on them. Typically I would /focus on the healer. I DO NOT neglect anyone else, but I do make sure that my healer keeps me alive as MANY times I have been one of the last ones standing, able to finish off the fight and allow for there not being a complete wipe.

With DPS too many times have they died and felt it was the tank;s fault. Soo many DPS'ers (and too many wanting the glory) out there and not enough tanks, wonder why? Well, definitely make sure not just you, but others are holding back enough as well at least for the tank to get the aggro, cant RD and BOP everyone unfortunately, RD cooldown is 15secs and BOP is much longer. Since it sounds like you have a good group I doubt much of this is a problem, and you even stated that you and others hold back til the pally grabs aggro...but something to keep in mind.

Finally, a major item as others have mentioned, is ensuring they have at least 200 spell damage, 490 defense - for uncrittable, and 102.4 avoidance (with holy shield active at all times) for uncrushability, minimum of 10-11k HP and at least around 12k armor starting. Have him go to maintankadin.com, so much information there its wonderful: two of my favorite links:

1: here is a gear progression for every slot to get as he progresses:
http://failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=2652

2: Here is the gear he can get to get uncrushable AS QUICKLY as POSSIBLE, all through quests, some crafted, and a couple of dungeons - normal mode, and leaves nothing to chance.

http://failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=4844

Definitely check on his stats, ensure the spelldamage ALL of which can be had on the weapon alone, crystalforge sword or continuum blade, with a +40 enchant, this should be all he/she needs so the rest of teh gear can focus on the defense, armor and health issues. Its a delicate balance as you start progressing, much better as you get further along.

ALSO, make sure he has the proper build, AND also has rightuoes fury up with full talents at all times, uses blessing of sanctuary on himself, unless kings, which another pally usually has so I dont use it myself, blessing of salvation on the others, and with the spell damage, have the improved holy shield talents, and up at all times, and along with consecrate, a great and better way to hold aggro is using seal of vengeance for alliance, seal of blood is not good, although i have no experience with it, only from research. Judgin SoV especially when its stacked really grabs the attention of the mob and costs less in mana than consecrate. with the Spell damage, RF, HS and judg Sov, it really should be hard to pull aggro off, the GRID addon is great in seeing nice little boxes with the little red dot on who has aggro, OMEN can show who is generating the most threat and can let others know to tone it down if needed.