ShS Daggers?Follow

the offhand doesnt matter at all, so keep it as a mace

get a emerald ripper, malchazeen, or honor grind s1 if you wanna try it

personally i dun like step-daggers, it takes a build made for free movement and limits it severely

mutilate if you want pvp daggers, thats it

I'm confused.

It's a fun spec but it's not for someone who is obsessed with damage meters or PVP supremacy.

My Rogues are for fun and I'm not concerned about fast leveling or even getting them into endgame instances. As long as I can kill things quickly enough without too much downtime then I am happy enough with my build. I play my Rogue to stealth around and do the stuff that my Warrior can't do so the Combat specs just don't interest me right now.

If your Rogue is your main then you will probably be happiest with a more conventional build than with something like ShS Daggers.

So, wait, you're saying that deep combat rogues aren't able to beat you on dps? And then you're saying it's possible to kill warriors as shs daggers... by blowing... cooldowns? You have prep, which resets evasion (barely an advantage against warriors) and sprint. (ShS isn't on the prep list yet, but whoever uses prep to reset shs is a dumbarse.) So are you suggesting that you can 8-11 bleed kite them?

Back to the out-dpsing combat rogues. You must be using BT/s3 weapons (nobody in their right mind would accept a shadowstep rog into BT, and s3 is doubtful with a defective brain like yours) and the combat rogue has... -63 hit rating, crystalline kopesh and some level 57 sword of the Owl?

wtf?

And I thought the OP was crazy for wanting shs daggers...

ShS daggers is decent in BGs i think where you can run into some pretty scrubily geared people, and it does work well solo PvE. I used the build to farm primals for a while to break up the monotony. ShS daggers in groups = crappy, but you didnt ask about groups so you should be OK. I would try getting a better dagger than ced's though. S1 would be a good goal.

Your reasoning makes since and your frustration is understandable. It's true that a lot of people don't research.

I was under the impression that the OP was asking for opinions on a subject from people who have tried it out. The problem with this particular subject, however, is that it is highly controversial due to the fact that there are a million web sites, guides, and forums out there that not only say that ShS daggers is useful but some of them also give explanations as to why and how. You come to these forums and half the people here are going to tell you that it sucks. If you google it then you're going to find a lot of sites/threads about how awesome it is. This can easily cause confusion in someone because you never really know the answer until you try it yourself. I personally liked ShS daggers and my DPS was a lot higher than when I was combat swords. This probably has a lot to do with the fact that I got into my character when ShS specced and had more fun, therefore resulting in being moe useful, as opposed to growing too bored with combat swords.

I gave my personal experience to the OP because I really couldn't tell in this case if he had researched any or not yet because of the fact that the subject of shadowstep and daggers (especially in PvP) is like a house of mirrors. Trust me, when I see a post that was obviously unresearched, then I either ignore it or mock them along with everyone else. This particular post, I tought might different.

Besides, with so many nerfs and canges to rogues you have to keep asking these questions. A lot of people are sitting here now saying that ShS daggers suck... yet in our own FAQ's talent build link there is a build for step ambush.

Which is why I said "At first". I apologize if I caused you any grief, I simply wanted to laugh at Aeon's sad attempts at fixing a simple problem, and used a metaphor.

If you want my input on the question at hand that you previously asked, ShS daggers sucks, and ShS isn't stellar overall anyway. Stay maces and respec HARP or 0/31/30, have some fun before the nerf.



...



Wait, what was that then?



Whether it's been answered for about a year now, people can't seem to get it into their heads, which is why i'm here.

Aeon, i'm going to do people a favor and not quote that giant pile of slobber you splurged out all over this thread.

First, what does step>ambush have to do with what I said? I don't give two nuts about whether you've been playing sneaky rogues in MMOs, they weren't like WoW. I also never said anything about positioning requirements...

Oh, and you're got PvE and PvP mixed up (although blizz would like us rogues to think they are the same thing with introducing resi.) PvE is sustained dps... Whoever you're fighting isn't going anywhere, so one giant e-peen shs>ambush isn't going to do squat when other rogues are tearing the boss up and you're backstabbing for as much as they ss. PvP is about BURST DAMAGE. With resilience, it's still better to have burst instead of sustained, but with resilience, it doesn't work too well.

Again, ShS doesn't have any sustained damage, making your previous point half right: It's hard to kill warriors, but it's also hard to kill casters (unless they're locks). Mages with 12k hp and say... 300 resi in full welfare epics laugh when your ambush crits them for 2k, which is not half of their hp... it's 1/6.

I actually enjoy to PvP more then I do raid, because I find raiding quite monotonous (although I must say seeing all the content is enjoyable, and one night can garner you many upgrades instead of days of grinding for just a few pieces.)

Seeing that my 2v2 with a resto druid in kara gear ended up at 1640 last season, with me 41/20 combat mutilate, I wouldn't say i'm a failure. We're pretty decent, as it turns out.

Jumping back to combat DPS, once again, all rogues have 2 categories of skills to stack: PvP, and PvE. Whether you're ShS daggers or combat swords doing Kara, BT or simply SV, you need to stack the same stats, so that combat rogue can 'scale the right stats' and 'translate the paper into product', resulting in them having the exact same gear as you, and outDPSing you easily. Blizz never intended ShS to be a good DPS build, so unless you've changed the subtlety tree somehow, it's not, in terms of paper, possible for them to be outDPSed. Now, like I said, if you factor in -63 hit rating and two crappy swords, or the infinitesimally small chance that they are more of a dumbarse than you, to the paper, then you might be able to outDPS them.

Also, you mentioned General PvE and not raiding. Find me a noticeable difference between the two other than group size, and I will give you not one, but two cookies.

I don't see how you could've taken from my earlier post that I don't like new challenges, but i've tried just about every spec for pve and pvp at 70, ShS with all kinds of weapons, mutilate, HARP, all combat weapon spec builds with the exception of fists, and of course combat daggers, which sucks ballz. I've even tried

hemo daggers

, which of course sucked. ShS had the best mobility, but as someone said in response to my thread "Is Hemo Really Nerfed?", there's no point in mobility if you can't deal damage for beans.

I am deeply thankful for your remarks regarding my balls and social life, both of which I am able to assure you without the slightest doubt are sufficient for a man of my stature. However, bringing e-peen-tastical, troll-classic terms like these taint a good argument, so I'd like to you refrain from using said terms again.

I also realize that you said , which is not 'damn near impossible', or anything like it. Whether it's damn near impossible, or just a headache, I have yet to see a ShS daggers rogue beat a warrior, in equal or better gear, fair and square. Oh, and please don't reference in that rogue that beat Serennia as ShS- he wasn't daggers.

Ok, I forgot vanish. Guess you got me there >.< A good man recognizes when he's beat. *cough*

You bring up sustained DPS again near the end of your second block of slobber. As I said, you want BURST, and not SUSTAINED, for PvP. While it may be hard to achieve as a rogue, since resi was introduced, you still want burst. ShS is not classified as burst, because a ShS ambush against someone in decent s1/s2 gear will crit for... 3k? which will be, at best, 1/3 of their HP.

The only bit of slobber that I will post, for sheer entertainment, is this.



So, first you say that ShS is good for arena except against non-clothies, and then you say that you outDPS combat sword rogues in PvE... (You said general PvE and not raiding, but now you're talking about raiding.) and now, you say that swords (which isn't as good for pvp as maces is, and the advantage you gain from maces in pvp is more than the disadvantage that you gain raiding, unless you raid more (in which case, you couldn't possibly know so much about pvp.)

Ah yes, i'm sorry that I haven't been keeping up with your respeccings. I'm sure everyone here is just waiting on the edge of their seat to hear that you finally... got some balls and tried something new...

If you want proof of my rog, search Kaistia. I'm the human rog on Cenarius, in the 2v2 We Aint Going Bak To Jail, with the druid in Kara gear (Scuzzlebutt, previously named Moonsage). She respecs feral for raiding and goes resto every weekend to arena with me.

Lastly, what does me having a rog above 20 have to do with you respeccing? Even if I was below 20, I would still have the insight (unlike a slobber-spraying, disgusting specimen of the interweb like you) to check the rog forums for help... Which means I might've unconsciously glanced at your respec thread, and perhaps read it if I was interested in the pathetic life of a slug like you.

I really hope one of the regular forum-goers (Nooble, Shao, Eon, Theo of course, Tyr and a few others) comes here and gives us their insight, to hide the slobber.

P.S.

i laugh at ur soshul lief lul, and ur ballz

Edited, Jan 8th 2008 11:21pm by morgorg

11-42-7 isnt cookie cutter

19-42 is mainly, dirty tricks is nice but most combat rogues rather have imp poisons and/or imp ea



and /clap on the ridiculous walls of text... good thing i brought a ladder /rolleyes