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BM Be Damned :)Follow

#1 Jan 03 2008 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
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Kidding with that title really, I was a Beast Mastery hunter from the beginning and loved it. But I think I loved it because I knew of nothing else. I am here to say that since switching to a Survival/Marksman spec, 0/21/40, I have been having the time of my life! Just a lot of fun and so much versatility. Two weeks ago (I think) I made the switch. I re-gemmed all my gear, scrounged up numerous enchants and got myself to 758 AGI unbuffed. Switched a few pieces of gear around too and even though my actual +AP dropped by a lot, all the extra agi actually boosted my total AP to above what it had been previously as BM. My dps average has dropped a little but so far I am finding no ill effects of this.

Maybe I'm just bragging about my spec, I hope not. On the advice of a few from this forum I skipped the last two talents from the Survival spec, Master Tactician and Readiness, for the sake of scattershot and Mortal Shots in Marksman and it's been a good choice thus far (my original plan required a minimum of 46 points into Survival to get to Readiness and also have everything I wanted out of the spec). What I am liking the best out of this so far is that my ability to perform crucial tasks in both PvP and PvE has been noticeably increased while my ability to at least come in the top 3 of my Recount has not been affected at all. Yea my pet is a bit weak but I've gotten used to that already.

The utility seriously is amazing. A few times in the last few days I have found myself in dire 2 on 1 situations in BGs that, as BM, would have called for me to just roll up in the fetal position and hope for a quick res at the GY. Not anymore. Typically now I am able to fend them off and delay their killing of me by up to a minute or more. Usually I still die but that's to be expected when you're outnumbered, but at least I can give them as much as Hell as possible in the process. It's quite amusing, between scattershot, Wyvern Sting, Imp. Wing Clip and traps I can keep them at bay for quite a while. So far it has performed excellently in arena too.

And the crits. OMG the crits! Sitting just shy of 28% critical strike rating (27.95% to be precise) and it's really nice, especially in instances. Most fights I am able to maintain an Expose Weakness debuff for a good 3/4 or more of every target which I like to tell myself helps in the killing process. By how much I'm not sure but if I understand it right, 25% of 758 agi is 189. If every Expose Weakness adds 189 AP to all attacking, I'd say that's a pretty nice helper. Not groundbreaking, but nothing to laugh at either.

So like, I just wanted to spill my feelings about this new spec I had no idea really existed before. And I can never go back I think, it has everything I ever wanted.

#2 Jan 03 2008 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
I feel the same way...my agility isn't as high as yours, but raid buffed my crit% is just over 40%. I don't PvP much, but when I do I love the survivability of the spec. Deterence has to be one of the most irritating things for a melee dps class to encounter...it's one of the last things they expect, and usually by the time it's worn off, they're slowed and taking a pounding from ranged attacks. It's difficult for me to compare my average dps to other Hunters on our Kara roster because my gear is a fair bit more progressed than any of the other folks'. Nevertheless, I typically fare quite well on the damage meter while providing a level of CC utility that is very difficult to beat (and will be even better when 2.3.2 goes live).

When WotLK comes out, however, if I'm still playing WoW I fully intend to respec BM for the trip to 80. As far as Hunters go, no spec matches BM for solo ability.
#3 Jan 04 2008 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, tavarde, I expect with your respec all the hunters in your guild will see a rise in their DPS in raids, too, unless there was already a survival hunter. Honestly, I don't expect you to out-DPS a BM hunter (especially since you're the CC SV spec, not the DPS SV spec of 5/20/36 or 0/20/41) but feel happy that you are probably increasing the overall DPS of the hunters and melee by an amount greater than the difference between SV and BM spec. You do, however, have the advantage of being able to DPS fairly well without a pet, so on fights where you wouldn't want a pet - you don't need one (and your mana efficiency is up the wazoo).

Just remember you may have to work harder at soloing, or slow down. SV means weak pet and lots of crits...in other words the equivilant of an undergeared tank and an aggro-hungry DPS. That's a big reason why I'm not SV specced myself (that and my gear would suck for it) - because I spend very little time in instances atm.
#4 Jan 04 2008 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir wrote:
Deterence has to be one of the most irritating things for a melee dps class to encounter...it's one of the last things they expect, and usually by the time it's worn off, they're slowed and taking a pounding from ranged attacks.


I agree it is great when it comes to melee classes like rogues, feral druids, enhancement shammy etc, but unless I am mistaken (and then I would gladly be corrected as I currently avoid using deterrence in those situations) using deterrence against a dps warrior is more like suicide? The dps warriors overpower ability is triggered on dodge, not?

I heard that rogues using Evasion (temporary +50% dodge chance) get pounded in the ground due to the overpower button on the dps warriors hitbar glowing all the time. As deterrence increases dodge chance for us (and parry which might make a differrence) does this not also apply to us?

Anyone battletested this? (as said I refrain from using it while face to face with a dps warrior).
#5 Jan 04 2008 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
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I believe the good rogues say that the benefits of evasion outweigh the Overpowers by quite a margin. You evade white hits, all specials except OP of course but you suffer a good chance of a critical OP every 6 seconds I think (there is a cooldown).

I would say with deterrence you only get half that dodge (bad overpowers, bad!) and you get a nifty 25% parry on top of that.

So Deterrence is a LOT better than evasion vs warriors and even evasion is seen as a good thing (overall). Hence, deterrence rocks! /smile
#6 Jan 04 2008 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
From a long time SV/MM myself, Master Tactician is not useless at all. I found it adds atleast 2 to 3 crit pct on average and thats with 4/5 into it (I wanted skattershot). Maybe more, this is comming from brief glances at SW states over meny SSC/TK raids.
#7 Jan 04 2008 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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500 posts
Welcome to the survival side.

One thing I've noticed in PVP, is that many people expect a big red kitty to come flying at them. I'm not sure why since there are many MM builds as well .. but this is fine. Let them forget about me and focus on the pet. :P
(battlegrounds .. I'm finally just starting arena)

And during raids, yes I buff the damage of others. They may or may not notice this while I'm there, but they definitely notice it when I'm not.
#8 Jan 04 2008 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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1,970 posts
Thanks all for the positive words. I was afraid I may have touched upon one of those subtle internet forum taboos (unique to the forum of course). Since BM is mainly said to be the best of the 3 specs for overall dps output.

Though Skribs, your part about not being able to out-dps BM hunters. I won't contest this as fact, though I will say not long after the original post I got into a normal mode run of I think Steamvaults. One of the coilfangs definitely. Was Paladin, shaman and 3 hunters. All from my guild except the shaman. Both other hunters were BM/MM and I topped them on the Recount meter by about 50,000 damage. Typically I end up 2nd or 3rd at worst, last time I was 4th was the CoT instance run (the Thrall escort one) where I was trying a whole new UI setup. Couldn't find any of my buttons for the life of me because they'd all been moved for what I thought would eventually be a more efficient setup (which it was, I still use it).

They're good hunters from what I see. Both take part in the weekly Kara runs, while I do not. So, while the raw numbers when crunched may show it statistically logical for BM to out-dps the other two specs, like any normal distribution there's also a high and low end. Guess I got lucky to slip into that high end that time.

But more on to topic, I must reiterate just how different the class feels. I feel like I have more control, not just on myself and my actions but the situations around me. Though it has no special connection to my spec, I've started Eagle Eyeing in BGs trying to spot advantages (this is amazing in Arathi, from the cliff at stables you can get a clear shot of every other flag). I'm picking out the healers and other clothies and sticking like glue. Often another player will come to their aid but they hit my traps, scatter, wyvern sting and wing clip. I swear I can almost see them get frustrated when for all intents and purposes I should already be dead. Between all the varying cooldowns it feels possible for me to now be able to keep a single enemy player 100% at bay. Kind of like a one-man turtle. I haven't pulled it off yet really as 100% amounts to forever, but I hope to get better at fending off attackers. Good PvE CC practice I think (I hope!).
#9 Jan 05 2008 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
Immunios wrote:
I believe the good rogues say that the benefits of evasion outweigh the Overpowers by quite a margin. You evade white hits, all specials except OP of course but you suffer a good chance of a critical OP every 6 seconds I think (there is a cooldown).
My guess is that a warrior will do a lot more dmg in 6 seconds if he hits 80% and without OP then when he hits 30% and with OP....

Quote:
I would say with deterrence you only get half that dodge (bad overpowers, bad!) and you get a nifty 25% parry on top of that.

So Deterrence is a LOT better than evasion vs warriors and even evasion is seen as a good thing (overall). Hence, deterrence rocks! /smile
Not really, deterrence still gives you enough dodge to dodge more then once every 6 seconds.
And that is enough to get every OP off.

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