i have seen a lot of gear lists and i see that not that many have +hit on a lot of the "Best" stuff. im thinking that +hit for tank threat would be better then more agi/str/ap. so what i want to know from peeps that have exp with tanked kara+ is
1. is +hit a good idea to stack to max?
2. how much +hit i need to max out?
3. what might be better to boost my threat?
thanks
Fuerza (terenas)
would link but dont work atm
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- + hit and tanking threat
+ hit and tanking threatFollow
WarlockPie wrote:
i have seen a lot of gear lists and i see that not that many have +hit on a lot of the "Best" stuff. im thinking that +hit for tank threat would be better then more agi/str/ap. so what i want to know from peeps that have exp with tanked kara+ is
WarlockPie wrote:
1. is +hit a good idea to stack to max?
WarlockPie wrote:
2. how much +hit i need to max out?
WarlockPie wrote:
3. what might be better to boost my threat?
Edit: Corrected amount of +hit on tanking gear to 0 after checking in game.
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 9:49am by JeeBar
15 posts
well from what i read +hit is the best thing to get untill your max for dps. the info on druids i have say that druids get most of the agro from there dps to me it seemed like a good idea + we dont have much to use for agro so the more to hit the better
Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 10:26pm by WarlockPie
Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 10:26pm by WarlockPie
Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 10:26pm by WarlockPie
Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 10:26pm by WarlockPie
I have tanked every boss in Karazhan (except Nightbane - famn fear) and have pretty close to zero +hit. It just isn't readily available in our tanking gear.
Druid tanks generally generate significantly more agro than a similarly geared warrior, so the +hit is generally not much of an issue here and you can pretty much ignore threat generation stats on your tanking gear. (DPS should be watching the threat meter for when to start DPS'ing, a miss with your first hit isn't too much of an issue.
+hit is more useful for making sure a taunt isn't resisted. The bear boss in ZA is one where a taunt resist can result in a wipe, but you always have the emergency Challenging Roar button. But as I have said, I have tanked Kara for a long time now with no +hit
Druid tanks generally generate significantly more agro than a similarly geared warrior, so the +hit is generally not much of an issue here and you can pretty much ignore threat generation stats on your tanking gear. (DPS should be watching the threat meter for when to start DPS'ing, a miss with your first hit isn't too much of an issue.
+hit is more useful for making sure a taunt isn't resisted. The bear boss in ZA is one where a taunt resist can result in a wipe, but you always have the emergency Challenging Roar button. But as I have said, I have tanked Kara for a long time now with no +hit
Agree with RB. I've tanked my way through almost every boss in Kara, all of Gruul and 3 bosses in ZA all with 0 +hit. Even the bear in ZA is yet to resist a taunt from me. So I doubt that it's that much of a needed stat in tanking.
Personally I think you would have to sacrifice too much in using items with +hit or by stacking +hit gems in good tanking items.
Personally I think you would have to sacrifice too much in using items with +hit or by stacking +hit gems in good tanking items.
I'm tanking for my guild in both SSC and the eye, and I have to agree to the above posters. I have about 1-2% +hit in my tanking gear and i have absolutely no problems with it. On Voidreaver where multiple tanks fight for agro we usually see the druids tanking him most of the fight. On more than one occasion I have even kept agro on him through more than one of his agro reducing knockbacks, and that's against equally geared protection warriors
There is no need for hit rating in a tanking set. It is a lot more important to increase your mitigation (thats, get 415def, get your armor up and then increase your hit points and dodge rate).
Wasting item budget on hit rating will reduce your mitigation and thus trade survivability for a little threat generation, no thanks.
However there are some easier instances which you might outgear as a tank. For those instances (basically all normal-instantes and the easier heroics) I exchange some pieces of my gear. This set has a lot more strength, ap, hit and crit than my normal tanking gear. This helps my rage and aggro generation and allows for my group members to nuke a lot earlier (pushes hate per second to anything between 800 and 1200 against normal trash mobs).
By exchanging this gear I however decrease my hit points by ~1k and armor by ~6k. Dodge goes down by another 3%. It is more than enough for normal instances but I would never use that gear to tank any hard hitting boss.
A bit more interesting is expertise rating which reduces parry and misses. Every time an opponent parries on of my attacks, hit swing timer is sped up a little. Thus I might get hit a few more times. By stacking some expertise I can increase my mitigation. Since there are not many items with expertise rating and good tanking stats (perhaps except Earthwarden) stacking expertise is still not the best idea due to itemization.
On a sidenote. RareBeast you have to try to tank Nightbane now. With the change of fear mechanics it is now very possible for a feral druid to tank Nightbane. I have done so last week because we ran with a somewhat undergeared tank for that boss (at least he felt undergeared and asked me to tank that boss).
It was a blast to finally tank that boss with my druid, although he really hits like a truck :-)
Wasting item budget on hit rating will reduce your mitigation and thus trade survivability for a little threat generation, no thanks.
However there are some easier instances which you might outgear as a tank. For those instances (basically all normal-instantes and the easier heroics) I exchange some pieces of my gear. This set has a lot more strength, ap, hit and crit than my normal tanking gear. This helps my rage and aggro generation and allows for my group members to nuke a lot earlier (pushes hate per second to anything between 800 and 1200 against normal trash mobs).
By exchanging this gear I however decrease my hit points by ~1k and armor by ~6k. Dodge goes down by another 3%. It is more than enough for normal instances but I would never use that gear to tank any hard hitting boss.
A bit more interesting is expertise rating which reduces parry and misses. Every time an opponent parries on of my attacks, hit swing timer is sped up a little. Thus I might get hit a few more times. By stacking some expertise I can increase my mitigation. Since there are not many items with expertise rating and good tanking stats (perhaps except Earthwarden) stacking expertise is still not the best idea due to itemization.
On a sidenote. RareBeast you have to try to tank Nightbane now. With the change of fear mechanics it is now very possible for a feral druid to tank Nightbane. I have done so last week because we ran with a somewhat undergeared tank for that boss (at least he felt undergeared and asked me to tank that boss).
It was a blast to finally tank that boss with my druid, although he really hits like a truck :-)
We tried Nightbane with 3 priests keeping a fear ward rotation on me and I think it would have worked, but we had a lot of newer members in the raid and DPS was a bit lacking, so we ended up getting our MT in and put me on DPS duty.
I'd love to actually beat it though, just so I can say I have tanked every boss in Kara (except those stupid animal bosses that nobody does!) I should probably respec to Primal Tenacity as well if I am going to try it again.
I'd love to actually beat it though, just so I can say I have tanked every boss in Kara (except those stupid animal bosses that nobody does!) I should probably respec to Primal Tenacity as well if I am going to try it again.
RareBeast wrote:
We tried Nightbane with 3 priests keeping a fear ward rotation on me and I think it would have worked, but we had a lot of newer members in the raid and DPS was a bit lacking, so we ended up getting our MT in and put me on DPS duty.
I'd love to actually beat it though, just so I can say I have tanked every boss in Kara (except those stupid animal bosses that nobody does!) I should probably respec to Primal Tenacity as well if I am going to try it again.
I'd love to actually beat it though, just so I can say I have tanked every boss in Kara (except those stupid animal bosses that nobody does!) I should probably respec to Primal Tenacity as well if I am going to try it again.
Just go for it. Getting feared is not such a big deal anymore as he'll still follow you. As long as everyone stays away from his front and at least some hots are ticking on you it'll be no problem.
We had 2 resto druids and one priest in our raid. Sadly no pally (I really would have liked a blessing of kings for mitigation and hit points, but there was no pally available).
I think two priests might be enough for a fear wards rotation. Normally Nightbane fears one or two times during every 25% depending on the raids' dps. Additionally you might resist the fear which will preserve the fear ward and during add phases you won't need a fear ward.
Just for some numbers I had ~43% dodge, 30k armor and 18k HP for that fight (I know, I'm too low on STA but I'm working on it :-)
My health raid buffed is just over 20k, but my armor is slightly lower and dodge about the same. Although I know have the Badge of Tenacity and Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch. Fuly buffed I hit about 62% dodge when I activate them both :)
RareBeast wrote:
My health raid buffed is just over 20k, but my armor is slightly lower and dodge about the same. Although I know have the Badge of Tenacity and Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch. Fuly buffed I hit about 62% dodge when I activate them both :)
I use the same trinkets and they are really nice ******* buttons :-)
A big health pool is nice for Nightbane as he do his abilities almost all at once (like 1 melee hit, cleave and his magical breath all within one second taking away 10-12k of your HP in a second).
Go for him :-)
Well, unless you have an abundance of priests, or priests coupled with Shamans with Tremor totem, Druid tanks aren't really preferrable for Nightbane. That fear of his is a raidkiller unless you can counter it. Granted, overgeared runs can make do without any of the above, since they can survive until the tank gets his act together. But a relatively new raidguild definitely shouldn't Druid tank Nightbane unless you have plenty of fearward/tremor totem in the raid.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Well, unless you have an abundance of priests, or priests coupled with Shamans with Tremor totem, Druid tanks aren't really preferrable for Nightbane. That fear of his is a raidkiller unless you can counter it. Granted, overgeared runs can make do without any of the above, since they can survive until the tank gets his act together. But a relatively new raidguild definitely shouldn't Druid tank Nightbane unless you have plenty of fearward/tremor totem in the raid.
I'm totally speaking from a purely theoretical position here since I've never even set foot in Kara, but unless the fear wipes threat, I don't see how it would be a raidkiller? Your DPS would have to scale back, sure, since the fear time means 0 TPS, but it's not like Nightbane is instantly going to run over and oneshot someone while the tank is running the other direction...
Nightbane is a very position-sensitive fight. If you're in his rear quater, near his tail, you'll get hit with a DoT that does 4k damage. If you're in front of him, his breath attack will hit for 4k and he can cleave you. Any time the tank gets feared, Nightbane will chase the tank, and either turn his tail or his head toward the raid. Also, the tank can run away from the healers and end up out of range for several seconds, although this can be countered by putting half the raid on one side of Nightbane and half on the other. Edit: Either of the above combined with standing in Charred Earth has a good chance of killing people.
The further your guild is in progression, the easier this fight gets, obviously. We run Kara on off-nights for badges and to gear up new members, so we can pretty much plow through all of Kara, the only snag being Netherspite if we have people that haven't fought him before. (How hard is it to stand in the green beam, anyway?)
And as for needing/wanting hit rating, the only hit rating I have on my tanking gear is from my Earthwarden. I've never had a taunt resisted on Nalorakk (Bear boss in ZA), and there aren't any other tauntable raid bosses. Missing a melee swing might hurt your TPS a little, but not enough to sacrifice avoidance/mitigation for extra threat.
Edited, Jan 4th 2008 10:46am by AstarintheDruid
The further your guild is in progression, the easier this fight gets, obviously. We run Kara on off-nights for badges and to gear up new members, so we can pretty much plow through all of Kara, the only snag being Netherspite if we have people that haven't fought him before. (How hard is it to stand in the green beam, anyway?)
And as for needing/wanting hit rating, the only hit rating I have on my tanking gear is from my Earthwarden. I've never had a taunt resisted on Nalorakk (Bear boss in ZA), and there aren't any other tauntable raid bosses. Missing a melee swing might hurt your TPS a little, but not enough to sacrifice avoidance/mitigation for extra threat.
Edited, Jan 4th 2008 10:46am by AstarintheDruid
Norellicus wrote:
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Well, unless you have an abundance of priests, or priests coupled with Shamans with Tremor totem, Druid tanks aren't really preferrable for Nightbane. That fear of his is a raidkiller unless you can counter it. Granted, overgeared runs can make do without any of the above, since they can survive until the tank gets his act together. But a relatively new raidguild definitely shouldn't Druid tank Nightbane unless you have plenty of fearward/tremor totem in the raid.
I'm totally speaking from a purely theoretical position here since I've never even set foot in Kara, but unless the fear wipes threat, I don't see how it would be a raidkiller? Your DPS would have to scale back, sure, since the fear time means 0 TPS, but it's not like Nightbane is instantly going to run over and oneshot someone while the tank is running the other direction...
Nightbane cleaves for a lot of damage and has a breath attack for... a lot of damage, with a nasty DoT.
Where you fight him, there's also no real room to maneuver... it's a fairly narrow, curving ledge so if the tanks starts running in one direction you're going to lose a lot of people and they can't get out of the way.
Fair enough...fear = bad in Nightbane's fight. ^^
The healers & ranged DPS all stand at max range during the fight as this leaves them out of range of fear. If the tank gets feared and runs away from the group, there is a few seconds before either the tank can get back in position or the healers can move forward enough where the tank has no heals - things can go pear shaped very quickly.
My guild has two well geared Prot Warriors and several feral druids, but I am the best geared druid by a significant margin so if the warriors aren't around, I get the job of tanking Kara. It is a bit anoying to be able to do the whole instance with me tanking but then have to try and get a warrior for one boss.
I'm hoping the other druids get geared quickly as I really want to be able to DPS with a bear tank keeping Mangle up for me so I can go crazy with my shreds :)
My guild has two well geared Prot Warriors and several feral druids, but I am the best geared druid by a significant margin so if the warriors aren't around, I get the job of tanking Kara. It is a bit anoying to be able to do the whole instance with me tanking but then have to try and get a warrior for one boss.
I'm hoping the other druids get geared quickly as I really want to be able to DPS with a bear tank keeping Mangle up for me so I can go crazy with my shreds :)
Of course any group being fresh in Kara does not want a feral druid to tank Nightbane as long as those fears are not sorted out.
However it can be done even without uber gear (My druid has nothing above Gruuls Lair as he is basically my alt and does not have access to TK/SSC loot at the moment.
If your group knows the fight, you can easily handle the fear by outranging it. Also as long as noone is before Nightbane who is not supposed to be there position is not that crucial. Those lashes with his tale for 4k damage over I believe 8 seconds are nothing which cannot be dealt with. Our melee catch this occasionally and a simple bandage would do the trick (or leader of the pack, or just a hot).
Since the changes in fear mechanics which lead to nightbane following the tank, feral druids can tank that fight. We have done it several times now. That does not mean that they are better suited to tank him than warriors, it just means it is very possible and does not involve luck. I'd say it is possible without fear ward and tremor totem, but of course those things help. I'm not sure that we had a scenario where a feral druid tanked nightbane without a priest fear-warding him, but we had quite some feared bears and nobody died because of those fears (the only time we might loose someone is during badly handled add phases, or if some tank is to slow to grab nightbane as he lands).
However it can be done even without uber gear (My druid has nothing above Gruuls Lair as he is basically my alt and does not have access to TK/SSC loot at the moment.
If your group knows the fight, you can easily handle the fear by outranging it. Also as long as noone is before Nightbane who is not supposed to be there position is not that crucial. Those lashes with his tale for 4k damage over I believe 8 seconds are nothing which cannot be dealt with. Our melee catch this occasionally and a simple bandage would do the trick (or leader of the pack, or just a hot).
Since the changes in fear mechanics which lead to nightbane following the tank, feral druids can tank that fight. We have done it several times now. That does not mean that they are better suited to tank him than warriors, it just means it is very possible and does not involve luck. I'd say it is possible without fear ward and tremor totem, but of course those things help. I'm not sure that we had a scenario where a feral druid tanked nightbane without a priest fear-warding him, but we had quite some feared bears and nobody died because of those fears (the only time we might loose someone is during badly handled add phases, or if some tank is to slow to grab nightbane as he lands).
Recent Visitors: 101
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (101)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- + hit and tanking threat
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC