Talents to AvoidFollow

No no no, you've got me all wrong (all that rating down for nothing, eh?). The only spec I bash on automatically is ret. Heck I don't even spend time writing good bashes for ret, I just usually go "lawl ret" and leave it at that. If I seem elitist its not because I am, its because I have little toleration for people that speak before they know what they are talking about. I fully acknowledge the fact that paladins can tank, heck I love them in TK and Hyjal. I do think they are the third best tank, behind druid and warrior, and the situations in which they truly excel is so limited, you're much better off being a healer. Is it the paladin's fault? No, not at all, the players have nothing to do with it. I firmly believe Blizzard itself designed paladin to be the least effective out of the 3 current tanking classes, and while they've made improvements, its hard to overcome the way the class was originally designed.

All you see of me is my ranting and raving on the forums. Ask anyone that has had me come in and inspect and break down their gear. They'll tell you a different story than the elitist rage machine you make me out to be. I just grow tired of seeing 90% people post nonsense in this board without reading FAQs or doing a tiny amount of research. When I play a class, I spend a TON of time talking to people about gear, specs, mods, and general aspects of play of the character. I'm sorry that I come off abrasive, its not that I'm a bad person, I just frankly don't give a crap what other people think about me, and I make my posts accordingly.

I've had to explain myself 2 or 3 times now, and this is the last freaking time I'm doing it.

****, Dilbrt. Grinding is like eighty percent of the game until you get to 70. Saying something is useless unless you're grinding is like saying air is useless unless you need to breath. I'm not saying you're wrong here, it's just that you shouldn't be surprised when people disagree with you if you state your case like that.

Tips to Deevious for the write-up. That deserves to be stickied somewhere if it isn't already.

dont forget once you hit 70 you'll be farming instances for rep and heroics for badges. both would go smoother with Reckoning. the OP is obviously not in BT or Hyjal, so for all intents and purposes he NEEDS Reckoning.

but yes, once he is part of the 0.1% of players that are pally tanks in BT he will probably spec out of Reckoning. but if he was that leet he wouldn't be posting such a question.

Yeah if you're in heroics reckoning isn't really doing you much good in there. (Hopefully, or you're one of those undergeared fools that everyone hates) However, when you're not in instances and farming is when it's still handy as you'll likely not be in your tanking set and won't have the avoidance.

Out of curiousity (genuine question, not a slight), do the rest of the Oboards think that pallys are good at healing and...healing when a newbie asks what pallys are good at?

I understood ret to have very important uses. Particularly...solo questing. And...okay, I change my statement. Ret has a very important use.

<3 the Oboards.

but seriously, uncrushable is only useful when you need it to be useful. reg 5mans and farmable Heroics DO NOT call for you to be uncrush/uncrit. they do call for you to be threat whores and still stay alive. when tanking i kept 3 sets always: raid set w/ max avoid, badge farmer w/ avoid+spell dmg, guildie helper w/ stam+spell dmg.

if im going for a fair amount of threat and the encounters are mundane, Reckoning is going be there. i've never had to tank past Kara or Gruuls and i probably never will. so for me Reckoning is gonna always have a few of my points.

Edit: btw, paladins are supposed to be a monster two-handed weapon wielding with holy sparks shooting everywhere mowing everything down in its path :D

Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 7:17pm by tommyguns

I refuse to heal a heroic for a tank that's not uncrittable. Uncrushable is much harder to attain, but Uncrittable is very easy.

Wow starts at lvl 70. Undisputable fact.

As for tanking for heroics, heroics vary in difficulty but you get to certain points and if you aren't geared enough certain mobs will 2 shot you. Look at the patrollers in Mech, they hit like a brick. I went in there with a 485 def prot warrior once, he got two shotted. Even with 1900 healing I couldnt keep him up through those since he just wasnt geared. Other mobs are perfectly doable with under 490. /shrug

You get past 5man/heroics which are the very tiniest part of end game and reckoning = useless for tanking.

psst. i have a secret.


[s]reckoning procs when you block with a shield too. it's still considered a hit[/s]

tiniest yes, also the most played by far(save pvp), therefor most relevant. reckoning = must have for quick, smooth runs.



u might not have a choice. i will switch my set around for specific mobs. for instance: 1st room of H Mech - 3 mob pull i will have my 300 spell set on for quick aggro and quick kill(HoJ sheds most of the dmg taken). then for the giants i'll go back to max avoidance(99% for me). also for the bomb demons before the 1st boss i'll grab my high stam/high spell set(which is not uncrit).

obviously, any tank in heroic needs to have the potential to be uncrittable and mostly uncrushable. but, its not always needed/ideal for every encounter.

Reckoning is bad for anything from heroics on for tanking. It's the same reason you only want the tank in front of a boss. When a boss parries an attack it will reset his attack timer and the tank can take two large hits closer then what would happen if the tank is the only person in front of the boss. Reckoning causes the problem also as it generates free swings which the boss can parry.

Even with Light's Grace proc a holy paladin will have a hard time keeping a tank up in this type of circumstance.