AoE DPS BuildFollow

Me and a RL friend are thinking of starting an AoE grinding group, with the intent of pretty much AoE grinding instances to level, with a pally tank, shaman healer, shadow priest, mage (either arcane or frost) and a warlock. On trash, the lock/mage DPS while the SP provides some support in the form of extra heals and a mana battery, then have all three DPSers do single-target DD on boss fights.
I'm planning on being the warlock, which for the purposes of levelling means I'll be spamming rain of fire on trash, and providing a lot of damage on boss fights.

As such, since the primary focus of the build would be to increase AoE speed, I would want to increase my AoE damage potential (both the raw damage I can deal, and the damage I can deal without pulling aggro) as much as possible. The secondary goal, where filler talents and/or subspec would be, would be to have a fair amount of single target damage dealing ability, so that on boss fights we can still get through quick.

It appears to me that an affliction spec would not be the way I would want to go. Until 70, affliction appears to have no AoE in it at all, and on 10, 15, even 20 mobs (we'll overpull a bit) tab-dotting wont do the trick. Thus, I am left between a 0/40/21 build, which would give me the ability to do rain of fire spam with my imp out for tremendous damage, or if health/threat isn't an issue I can put him away for 15% more damage. On boss fights my gatling imp would do quite a bit of damage compared to a normal imp (over double if I did my math right) and I could make use of SB spam.
Or I could go with a build that puts at least 41 points into destro, to get shadowfury, and then use a splattering of single-target fire damage on the boss fights. Considering the mage will probably be using a fire sub-spec on boss fights, in this build I would get extra fire damage from him, and I could swap out CoS for CoE.

This depends on a few things...first off, if imp shadow bolt procs affect the shadow priest, I almost have to go with the 40/21. If shadowfury does not provide enough damage to be worth it, 40/21 is what I would want as well. I guess what I'm asking is this:
On trash fights, how much difference would there be in AoE damage I can do with rain of fire (and shadowfury if specced destro) in the demo build or a destro build, and which spec would do more damage? Assuming I'm levelling in instances and have mainly instance blues to use.
On boss fights, how much difference would there be in damage I can do with the two specs, one being SB spam as 40/21, the other being fire spell rotation with a destro build? Again, assuming levelling in instances and using mainly instance blues.

Locks arn't an AOE class... 1 AOE spell... 2 if you specc for it. I guess 3 if you count SoC (tho I dont know why... or how you could...) and 4 if you somehow want to cast the curse of doom, wait for it to kill/summon the demon,, and then waste a shard to enslave it...but i dont think ive even casted that... ever

Lock's are DOT-n-run.
The best AOE class, (only imo) is a frost mage.
Second would be a prot pally, just grabbing 6-7 mobs solo and spamming Consecrate
with SoL up.



Edited, Jan 1st 2008 11:19am by IzzTwizz

I find the whole thing confusing.

First, he talks about a leveling group that will AoE grind instances using a pally tank.
Then he goes into 40/21 builds, which you can't level with...
He also talks a bit about 41 point destro - which would mean at least level 50.
There's also the whole issue of these 1-20 mob overpulls they plan on doing. I have serious doubts about any at level group being able to get away with this in an instance. Any mobs that are going to be worth xp (the whole point of levelling) are gonna kill the tank in a pull that big. It MIGHT be possible to do in some lower instances, but definitely not in Outlands.

As for just AoE in general, I hardly ever use rain of fire. Usually just on those pulls of large numbers of non-elites in some instances. Being 70, I'll sometimes bust out several SoC's on a trash pull - but only if it's a good tank. Several going off at once can pull aggro.

If I understand correctly, I also feel bad for the priest. He's supposed to heal on these big pulls (but not very well), then dps just for the boss fights? I could see talking someone into doing that on a run, but not for <however many> levels you're planning on doing this.

This is actually very viable here... I don't know what ya'll are talking about.

Warlock is not the best AE dpser, true, but they are better than most and are less dependant on outside factors. Rain of Fire is almost as good damage as Blizzard (have run with groups similar to this) and the fact is after all is said and done Warlock has more utility than the Mage, while the mage brings a lot of other benefits to the fight.

In other words... for this a Mage + Lock beats Mage + Mage.

The main problem here is that a "true" AE dpser has a talentbuild that is generally weak for the grind and terrible for PVP. If you're alright with this than just give some of these ideas a shot.

Pallies gonna be Protection obviously. He wont be tanking until probobly 20, though. Shammy may make a better tank until then. Pally wants Armor and STA and a bit of INT and AGI never hurt. Stay clear of any sort of hybrid until you've got Avenger Shield.

Mage is gonna have a build that utilizes Imp Blizzard's Chill effect with Frostbite's Chill->Frozen and then combine that with Ice Shards and Shatter for a crazy amount of high-damage crits. The build is rare, since most people that use Blizzard to grind avoid the Frostbite talent in fear that it will space out their AE group, but for using on a Pally tank this setup works amazingly.

I'm not an expert on Shammies, but I'll tell you that until late game your shammies gonna do good using both Resto and Elemental spells/talents. A HUGE help when doing AE's also is for the Shammy to lay down Totems -- you'd be suprised how many don't.

The priest will serve well as a Mana/Health regenerator, and Fort is always always a bonus. This guy will be bottoming out the DPS charts, though, unfortunately.

As for you, you're right about Affliction. While in most cases (even on multies) DoT Rot is a great way to go, against the likes of a Mage and Paladin I garentee you'll fall far behind on the damage meter. You may also **** the pally off if you start a rot off too early. The only benefit to a Affliction here is SL, which can quickly be cast on all enemies and make for a GREAT way to crop HP (and life means mana.) For you I suggest primarily Destro... lets take a look at why...

1.) Both Demo and Affliction pride themselves on their durability and capability to sustain DPS without taking hits to their manapool. Fact is, though, that even on low level instances the group is gonna look like this after a AE group.

Pal 80/50+* (Depends on how many heals were needed)
Sha 100/60
Mag 100/40
Pri 100/80

Affl Lock 90/100
Demo Lock 80/100
Dest Lock 80/60

For your lock to be 90/100 makes no sense, especially when you're putting out pathetic damage. You're going to have to wait for them to get their mana back reguardless, so if you can pop out more DPS and pay the price in waiting and drinking, there really is no "extra" cost at all here. You'd have to wait anyways.

2) Although Locks can do AE, it is really limited to a select few spells. Rain of Fire is the most efficient and quickest/simplest way to push out AE DPS. Seed of Corruption is beautiful BECAUSE it can be cast on the go, waited on for a large group to cluster together and 'detonated' for great burst AE. In reality, though, the damage is less than just a good RoF rotation on still mobs. And being able to cast on the go is no bonus here, because your enemies will be standing still.

3) No pet here will help solve any problems. Imp gives HP, which is better than any other option here. VW will push out 0 utility in this group. Succy's seduce is pretty worthless (except in rare situations, in which case theres really no reason to spend points on it.) Felpup is just plain bad here. Felguard is still going to push out lame DPS because it's fighting 1 while everyone else is hitting multiples. Demo tree lacks because the dependance on Demons themselves stops at the Imp...

4) In these AE groups one of the most frusterating things can be runners. While the Mage's Blizzard chill helps drastically, throwing on more "chances of effects" NEVER hurts. Spells that are generally looked down upon end up looking real nice all of a sudden such as Aftermath and Pyroclasm.

5) Boosts to what you're really going to use here. For single target DPS SB Spams and SBurns will outdps even the best DoT Rot (which is why most Affliction resorts to SB Spam after the good DoTs are layed on.) You WILL push out marginally better DPS here on "real" boss fights (Mara/Scholo+) by doing DoT Rot + Spams, but hell nothing is stopping you from Laying down a Corruption! As for RoF the only trees with any benefits is Destro/Demo, and Destro adds a lot more of them.


What I have made here is a quick suggestion, and you should definatly tweak it to fit your needs if you like the skeletal structure, but 7/12/42 will give you a nice round set of options. You may also trade off SnF and Shadowfury for Imp Immo and Conflag for better results when DPSing singles higher-end (once you get Incinerate.)

It's a tough call though, your 0/40/21 gives alot of options for other things, and will push DPS output across the board better. Soul Link is also always nice... I still believe heavy Destro will help more for the AE purposes, though.

Well, go there, roll one, play a bit and then come and tell us what you found viable or not.

If there is something I hate more than theorycraft its theorycraft without any practical knowledge.
Just go finally roll that lock Skribs.

Yes, with 61 points you could do this. But when levelling you won't have 61 points, and what you can do depends on just what level you are at that exact moment. When you and your friends are only level 20, you will have 0/5/6 (or something) and will be doing something completely different.
This is also why I made my comment about 41 point destro/shadowfury.

I will also add that there's really no such thing as a shadow priest until level 40, since before you have shadowform you're just a priest with a lot of points in shadow talents. Maybe level 30 if you consider VE to be what makes a SP. And he can't be a mana battery til level 50.

Which would kinda lead to my main point: You talk about levelling, but most of the strategies you discuss don't apply at all til higher levels. What is your strategy/build for 20? 30? Some classes will get abilities kicking in before others will, too.