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Healing benchmarks for higher raidsFollow

#1 Dec 31 2007 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen the kara benchmarks, but what are the benchmarks for hitting the harder content? My friend's gearing up in heroics since his guild hasn't done much raiding lately, and he's wondering when he gets his new gear what level of content he'll be able to hit, and if he should find a new guild so he can hit higher stuff, or stay with his guild and gear up more in the raids.

So, for ZA, Gruul, Mag, and maybe the T5 content, what are the healing stats you'd recommend?
#2 Dec 31 2007 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Was doing Gruul with about 1400, mag was closer to 1500, 1600ish for SSC. I am sitting at 1823 right now, can switch gear around and be 2000 if I want, ZA is still a *****. Everyone has to be strong on that run and you have to have right balance or else you are just wasting money on repair bills. Full cleared it, and I rather do a vashj fight, honestly.

Remember as you move out of Kara and into 25 man content +heal really has to be balanced with spell crit and MP5. Having +1800 and only 18% Holy crit = fail. Pallies have insane mana efficiency, but the difference between a pally with regen and one without is huge.

Without doing Kara though he can't expect too much. A guild just breaking into SSC maybe. Any fool can farm gear, experience is what lots of guilds look for. Also there are a number of key upgrades he is missing from Kara that don't see replacements until end t5 or t6. He would do himself a favour joining a Kara guild or finding some people to pug with and getting his kara pieces. I know we bring people in who are Heroic/S1 geared and tell them that they need to farm kara to get in main raid. You see them just booting around and slacking and not doing kara then wanting raid spots and we usually have to sit em down and tell them that Heroic/S1 epics are nice but they lack the stats necessary to compete in a main raid and at t5/t6 content there is no room to carry a guy just to gear him out, especially when he has shown a complete lack of initiative in getting ready to hit the content.
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#3 Dec 31 2007 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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What then are the holy crit, MP/5, and mana pool benchmarks for those raids?
#4 Dec 31 2007 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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No real benchmarks, the gear through kara tends to make it pretty standard with rings/neck/trinkets allowing for some variation. Seen spell crit whores, seen MP5 ******, balance tends to work the best though. I can bump up to +27-28 Holy Crit, I can go over to 120 mp5 without buffs. Depends on the gear and gems I bust out. I can go anywhere inbetween

You don't see so many bench marks post kara because it boils down to progression. You arent attempting Gruul if you havent downed Prince a couple times and if you have downed prince a couple times you will have the gear to do Gruul.

There arent those clear cut +heal, +mp5, +spell crit benchmarks that you will see going into Kara.
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#5 Dec 31 2007 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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1700 +heal, 20% holy crit, 80 MP/5, and 11k-12k mana pool, what would that give him?
#6 Dec 31 2007 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
Kara, besides his mp5 sounds to low for much higher. Maybe Gruul...
#7 Dec 31 2007 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
Honestly when you get beyond kara it becomes less and less what gear you have and more and more the skill of the player. There have been guilds that have killed illidan in tier 4 stuff. You also can do what I did, go all the way to BT/Hyjal with a pre-kara healing mace (not my choice, but I did it). The only reason I put a pre-kara healing thing together is to keep people from trying to raid in all "of healing" greens or "of int" or stupid stuff like that. Once you get to the point you can do 10-mans effectively and well you probably have the gear to do pretty much anything if you're skilled (and have the computer hardware, unfortunately) enough. Gear is just a secondary bonus. Just keep in mind you want to try to keep a balance between enough healing, crit, and mp5.
#8 Dec 31 2007 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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20% holy crit is pretty rough, 80 mp5 wouldnt be too hateful if he was flasking, mana oiling and using blackened sporefish to compensate. Like I said he could probably handle moving into a guild just breaking into SSC. I'd have a better idea if I could see the armory.

Experience is a big thing as well, has he full cleared Kara, has he killed gruuls, or is he a 5 man healer who can't drop a cleanse or BoP when needed and has no clue about downranking, heal rotations etc.

edit - as Dilbrt stated the further you get into t5 the more it comes down to skill and less about gear. You get into content like Vashj and 1 man dying, especially a healer and you have to wipe the fight. Content where 10 things are going on at once and suddenly Mag seems like Attumen in simplicity.



Edited, Jan 1st 2008 2:00am by bodhisattva
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#9 Dec 31 2007 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
My post wasnt abou this gear, but the need for experiance lol. oh well.
#10 Dec 31 2007 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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He's full-cleared gruul in a pug, and his guild's done some of kara. The kara experience he had, he had about 5% less crit, 500 less healing, and 4k less mana though.
#11 Jan 01 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Link armory, go go!

Honestly though, there is nothing else to say without getting an armory link and being able to give him a good going over in terms of gear, gems, talent spec etc.

Like I said he could probably break into a guild that is just working on T5 such as Hydross/Lurker etc. Nothing past that. Also if he is missing certain pieces of Kara gear he will feel it, since for certain things you don't see upgrades until last bossses in t5 or even well into t6, which is an extremely long time to go using half assed gear.

Find a guild that has downed Mag. Join it. They might have Kara off rotation but they will more than likely still run it on off nights. If they can down mag they have passed the idiot test. There are some guilds that bypass mag and goto VR and Lurker, these tend to get stonewalled when they get to FL, Alar, Vashj etc because they never picked up the skills they need but rather went for easy loot. Find a guild that has downed mag and you will have access to Kara, Gruul, Mag and be with people that will more than likely progress smoothly into SSC/TK.
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#12 Jan 01 2008 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Armory
Keep in mind that he's planning on getting a few upgrades, when he gets those he'll be at the stats mentioned (and his meta gem will activate):
Implacable Guardian Sabatons with vitality
High Justicar's Legplates with runic spellthread

Also he does PvP some, so his armory may show different gear, and it may say "awaiting refresh" cuz armory is f'd up right now, but there ya go.
#13 Jan 01 2008 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I picked up High Justicar legplates and Pally headpiece out of ZA and tried it out in a raid. The effect on mana efficiency was apparent immediately. Think it was just 10 mp5. I quickly put legplates of the innocent and t4 helm back on
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#14 Jan 09 2008 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Armory's working again. You can go to the link I provided
#15 Jan 09 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Just looking at your friend before I head off to work.

Looks like he has focused on +healing to the exclusion to everything else. Mainly MP5 which is bad. His MP5 isn't low, it is atrocious. Both his rings are gutter trash HH stuff. Prot Pally tanking boots. Then there are the blues.

Your friend is going to have to hit Kara. I wouldn't even let him in on a Magtheridon fight. Shard of the Virtuous, Shield off Chess event, Libram off Opera, faction ring, etc stuff he won't see upgrades for a LONG LONG time if he tries to skip kara and he will feel it the further he goes along.

He definitely needs to get a number of key pieces before he even thinks about anything beyond Gruuls.
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#16 Jan 09 2008 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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bodhisattva wrote:
Both his rings are gutter trash HH stuff.


The healing one isn't bad(better than the Kara one, IMO, since the Kara one wastes item budget on Spirit and has no mp5). The damage one is horrid. His Thrallmar rep is good enough for a much better healing ring and would find that a good substitute. I'd actually probably take the Thrallmar one over the Violet signet for the mp5.



Edited, Jan 9th 2008 6:03am by Poldaran
#17 Jan 09 2008 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd also have to ask why he's put talents in Imp RF.
#18 Jan 09 2008 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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Voxers wrote:
I'd also have to ask why he's put talents in Imp RF.


It's useful in PvP. And as a paladin, no reason not to run both the best PvE spec and PvP spec at the same time.
#19 Jan 09 2008 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Voxers wrote:
I'd also have to ask why he's put talents in Imp RF.

The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
It's useful in PvP. And as a paladin, no reason not to run both the best PvE spec and PvP spec at the same time.


But isn't he interested in raiding? And wouldn't Guardian's Favour be a bit more helpful in raids? I know I've found it invaluable quite a few times in Kara but I bow to your knowledge of higher raids 'cause we haven't got there yet.

And while I'm at it (talents, that is) surely Aura Mastery would be a point well spent? Holy light and now cleanse is at 40 yards, so why wouldn't you want your aura to reach that far too? It's good for fights like Prince.

Sorry, I know this isn't really about talents, but I'm now wondering if I've got my talents all wrong >.>
#20 Jan 09 2008 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Voxers wrote:
I'd also have to ask why he's put talents in Imp RF.


It's a godsend on Tidewalker when you have to get aggro from murlocks without wasting too much mana. My current guild also has us use it on certain trash pulls in Black Temple.


Voxers wrote:
But isn't he interested in raiding? And wouldn't Guardian's Favour be a bit more helpful in raids?


You MUST have GF if you're doing Vashj, no way around it. Its also helpful in various other situations, including PvP.

Voxers wrote:
And while I'm at it (talents, that is) surely Aura Mastery would be a point well spent? Holy light and now cleanse is at 40 yards, so why wouldn't you want your aura to reach that far too? It's good for fights like Prince.


QFT.

Honestly if you want to see a 90% PvE 10% PvP raiding holy spec, feel free to copy mine. I've tweaked this and changed that around for the better part of a year and I have finally gotten my perfect spec. Is my spec perfect for you? Maybe, maybe not. But for what I do (mostly PvE) its perfect.
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