I've been working on my build today and I discovered that my end-result was similar to the one full-prot build shown in the sticky, but with a few differences. I'm curious why certain talents were taken in the sticky build.
1) Improved Shield Wall. Shield Wall rocks. But I use it so infrequently that I'm not sure if I want to spend any points in making it last longer.
2)Improved Defensive Stance. I was under the impression that this skill was questionable at best.
Am I mistaken on these two talents? I'm actually considering using this variation on the sticky build. Please review and point out any slip-ups. Thanks all.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0cZVZcEtsI0zcxst
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Questions about sticky's full prot buildFollow
Decent build over all, IMO it should work fine, my suggestion is to take one point out of cruelty and put it in anger management for extra rage.
Regretfully I can't get to Anger Management with just one point. I only have 8 points in Arms and need 10 for AM. So I'd have to pull 3 points out of something to get it. I could probably pull some out of Prot...but I'm not sure I really want to lose anything there.
imo you'd be better off with http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Lq0cZVZ0EtoI0dcest
imp revenged sucks, half the mobs later on are immune to it anyways, and as usual you can't stun bosses.
re: questions... IMO
1) knowing exactly when to use shield wall separates good tanks from amazing tanks. extra 5 seconds of living say... on gruul when your dps isn't really high enough and you're on grow 16 at 2% means quite a lot. Or maybe your healers did something stupid and are silenced or can't heal for 2 seconds for other reasons and it's a matter of a wipe or not. It's your OH **** button and you should use it accordingly, better to get than improved revenge anyways.
2) Improved def. stance is situational. You don't need it for kara or gruul, but it seems to help quite a bit in everything past that. Where else are you going to put points, TM? why do you need TM :/
imp revenged sucks, half the mobs later on are immune to it anyways, and as usual you can't stun bosses.
re: questions... IMO
1) knowing exactly when to use shield wall separates good tanks from amazing tanks. extra 5 seconds of living say... on gruul when your dps isn't really high enough and you're on grow 16 at 2% means quite a lot. Or maybe your healers did something stupid and are silenced or can't heal for 2 seconds for other reasons and it's a matter of a wipe or not. It's your OH **** button and you should use it accordingly, better to get than improved revenge anyways.
2) Improved def. stance is situational. You don't need it for kara or gruul, but it seems to help quite a bit in everything past that. Where else are you going to put points, TM? why do you need TM :/
russki wrote:
2) Improved def. stance is situational. You don't need it for kara or gruul, but it seems to help quite a bit in everything past that. Where else are you going to put points, TM? why do you need TM :/
Maybe it's my inexperience, but I love tactical mastery. I often find myself switching to Berserker Stance to Intercept a mob that has gotten away from me.
Thanks for the input guys. :-)
I could probably stand to lose Imp. Revenge. It really doesn't seem as useful as it once was. But I'm not sure that picking up Imp. Shield Wall or Imp. Defensive Stance is really that helpful to me. I don't think I'll raid when I hit 70. I'm shooting more for 5-man heriocs.
I tend to stance-dance a lot when I play. When tanking I'm in defensive 95% of the time...but being able to switch out and intercept is handy. And I think TM is great when I'm questing/soloing and DW'ing.
I could probably stand to lose Imp. Revenge. It really doesn't seem as useful as it once was. But I'm not sure that picking up Imp. Shield Wall or Imp. Defensive Stance is really that helpful to me. I don't think I'll raid when I hit 70. I'm shooting more for 5-man heriocs.
I tend to stance-dance a lot when I play. When tanking I'm in defensive 95% of the time...but being able to switch out and intercept is handy. And I think TM is great when I'm questing/soloing and DW'ing.
You shouldn't be rage-starved in high-end content anyway, and with revenge costing 2 rage, TC costing 13, devastate costing 9, and SS costing only 17, it's not an issue.
The 3 points you take out could come from imp revenge, as most bosses are immune to stun anyway. Spending 3 points on something that won't even work is worse than spending the 2 points in imp shield wall, which would work maybe once every hour or two. However, I would not put all 3 points into arms for anger management. Unless you have a fury warrior in your group, 2/5 imp demo shout would help out a lot. (Any more points don't actually work on mobs, so again you are looking at wasted points if you go [3-5]/5).
After that, there's one talent point floating around that I honestly have no idea where to put. 1/2 imp bloodrage, 1/3 imp defensive stance (you may not want it, but that talent point wont do much good in most other spots), 1/5 UW, 1/2 imp shield bash, or 1/2 imp taunt. From what you've said, and what I reccomend, I'd say imp bloodrage would be your best bet. 3 extra rage every time you use it.
Granted, for some heavy casting bosses, you may want to find a way to slip 2 points into imp shield bash, probably from imp demo shout (since a heavy caster would have a weak melee attack), and maybe find a way to put 3 points into imp def stance there.
This is what I would use for the most part, and something like this for casters, if you feel like respeccing.
The 3 points you take out could come from imp revenge, as most bosses are immune to stun anyway. Spending 3 points on something that won't even work is worse than spending the 2 points in imp shield wall, which would work maybe once every hour or two. However, I would not put all 3 points into arms for anger management. Unless you have a fury warrior in your group, 2/5 imp demo shout would help out a lot. (Any more points don't actually work on mobs, so again you are looking at wasted points if you go [3-5]/5).
After that, there's one talent point floating around that I honestly have no idea where to put. 1/2 imp bloodrage, 1/3 imp defensive stance (you may not want it, but that talent point wont do much good in most other spots), 1/5 UW, 1/2 imp shield bash, or 1/2 imp taunt. From what you've said, and what I reccomend, I'd say imp bloodrage would be your best bet. 3 extra rage every time you use it.
Granted, for some heavy casting bosses, you may want to find a way to slip 2 points into imp shield bash, probably from imp demo shout (since a heavy caster would have a weak melee attack), and maybe find a way to put 3 points into imp def stance there.
This is what I would use for the most part, and something like this for casters, if you feel like respeccing.
duvar wrote:
russki wrote:
2) Improved def. stance is situational. You don't need it for kara or gruul, but it seems to help quite a bit in everything past that. Where else are you going to put points, TM? why do you need TM :/
Maybe it's my inexperience, but I love tactical mastery. I often find myself switching to Berserker Stance to Intercept a mob that has gotten away from me.
in heroics, you will often have 10 rage or more that you need to stance dance to zerker and intercept, then switch back to def stance and hit taunt. then you have 6 seconds to get hit, lay out a couple hits and throw out a shield slam/revenge/devastate. the point(s) in imp TM really are put to better use elsewhere.
and to the poster who said take out 1 point in cruelty to put into anger management? even if it were possible, you already have so little crit% in tank gear compared to dps gear, why would you want to give up another crit% for 1 more rage every 3 seconds? more crit = more damage/rage = more tps.
Drop the imp Reveng and get the 3 points in imp defensive stance instead. other than that the build rocks for all endgame tanking!
Paladense wrote:
1) Improved Shield Wall. Shield Wall rocks. But I use it so infrequently that I'm not sure if I want to spend any points in making it last longer.
I feel the same way, I find it much better to Imp. Taunt ([button]oh ****![/button]) or filling in the lower tiers.
Paladense wrote:
2)Improved Defensive Stance. I was under the impression that this skill was questionable at best.
This is your only way to effectively mitigate spell damage, which is only ever needed in SSC and forward. The usefulness of this talent is completely determined by what you're raiding/instancing.
It's a very good build, stick with it.
russki wrote:
imo you'd be better off with http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Lq...0EtoI0dcest
You can't possibly tell what he's better off with unless you know where he's going when he's PvE:ing.
russki wrote:
imp revenged sucks, half the mobs later on are immune to it anyways, and as usual you can't stun bosses.
Imp. Revenge isn't worth it in raids (or it might be if you have certain survivability issues, but then again the stunnable mobs, as pointed out, just get rarer) but it's worth it's weight in gold when you're doing heroics. It's all a matter of where you're going, where you're pwning face.
While the points made about rage starvation being next to inexistent in end-game content are true, it's also a matter of how much all out threat you can go. If you've got enough rage management you might not even have to use white hits at all. I've done it while tanking Kara (the trash before Attumen, 3% of my damage was white). I had at least two mobs on me most of the time though, so that helped with rage gen...
Thanks again for all the great input. Sounds like I'm pretty close to having a build I can work with.
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