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Prot Pally vs. "Prot" DKFollow

#1 Dec 29 2007 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Bored at work and thought I'd share my thought on the hero class coming out for those of us that were going to try it.

I'm thinking I might give the DK a serious shot rather than dinking around with em like I do my Priest and Rogue. DK could presumably have the same concepts, from what I can find, as a pally only the opposite. No reactive damage, no heals and no shield. If they do share these opposite-similarities(lol), I'm wondering if they'll have AoE force dmg.

The way I have it set up in my head is this:
If we have Druids and Warriors tanking with mainly single target aggro, and only Pallies with multi-target aggro, could it be possible Blizz will make the DK the second multi-target aggro tank? If so I think I'd give the class a fair shot. I'm not so big on raiding anymore, did a lot pre-TBC and post-TBC on my Rogue then lead some Kara on my Pally, but I truly just enjoy the 5man content. And AoE an tank is the best tank for 5man content(more often than not).

Not a big point to this post, just sharing some thoughts. Maybe I share too much =P
#2 Dec 29 2007 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Since we're in idle speculation mode, and DK is supposed to be able to tank dual-wielding, I wonder if they will attempt to make its core tanking mechanism around parrying...
#3 Dec 29 2007 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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lol, I didn't think about that. Dodge + Parry + Shadow Magic Shield of some sort maybe?

From everything I've read they are thought to only be able to wield 2-handed rune-weapons only. But of course, hardly anything is official sadly.
#4 Dec 29 2007 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
You can tank without block or heavily relying on parry, druids do it. I just assume they won't be able to get uncrushable (like druids). Due to that, I don't see raids changing their main tank from warrior to DK. I see DK more as a higher DPS (compared to other tanks) off-tank that some crazy people will go "hey look we used a DK to tank the end of the game boss just because we could" and while DKs will have the ability to tank, they will be ranked somewhere in the area of druids or paladins, but far less than warriors.

I, for one, hope that they do NOT have AoE tanking mechanics, I'd like to see that stay paladin's domain. If paladins retain the title of best AoE tank, it will let people continue to use the class, rather than all tank wannabe's switching to DK.

Personally I do plan on rerolling DK as a main because it looks fun, will provide me an alternate way to play the game (making me a better all-around gamer), and since my last two mains were warlock and paladin, and I see this as a combination of the two.
#5 Dec 30 2007 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
TacticalRage wrote:
From everything I've read they are thought to only be able to wield 2-handed rune-weapons only. But of course, hardly anything is official sadly.


Everything I've read said they would be able to duel-wield as well, and I had given thought to Parry-only tanking. Maybe their agility stat will add to their parry instead of dodge. I think that would appeal to Blizzards strategy of having notably different classes.

However, Druids can tank because they have the massive armor and hp to take normal hits and crushing hits. DKs probably wouldn't have that massive of armor and hp, so they are going to have to mitigate some other way. Maybe an active ability which decreases their outgoing damage by 50%, increases their threat by 100%, and decreases their incoming damage by 30% or something.

Or maybe they can redirect some damage to other party members, either designated or non-designated. I think that would fit with the DK mind-set.
#6 Dec 30 2007 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Are you sure redirecting damage from the tank to other people is a good thing for a main tank?

I'm not real sure there's anything solid to work with here, so there's little point in discussing anything other than wild, baseless theories. Theorising is okay, but it may turn out that the DK makes just as good a tank as a paladin makes DPS.
#8 Dec 30 2007 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
Nobody knows, nobody will know until WotLK is closer than a year to actually coming out.

Sheesh. If anything, it sounds similar to a combination of Bear Druids and Rogues.
#9 Dec 30 2007 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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redbarrom wrote:
Quote:
but it may turn out that the DK makes just as good a tank as a paladin makes DPS.


badly?


I read it as: "Decent but with enough drawbacks that you'll want any other form of tank instead of that if you can."
#10 Dec 30 2007 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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1,503 posts
i'd like to see DK become the #1 aoe tank or caster-boss tank. give pallies a few more single target abilities and place them closer to warriors for raid tanks.

i think with the lack of shield skills DK will rely more on auras, spell shields, and weapon parries for defense. i'd also imagine they'd have some 2H tanking attacks like whirlwinds and a thunderclaplike ground pound. i also think they will have dmg based threat like pallies. this makes them ideal for 360 degree aoe tanking. imagine an AOE-er that can deal offensive dmg like a mage or warlock but can take more than 2 hits after getting aggro.
#11 Dec 30 2007 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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tommyguns wrote:
i'd like to see DK become the #1 aoe tank or caster-boss tank. give pallies a few more single target abilities and place them closer to warriors for raid tanks.

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day.

Paladins are already the supreme AoE tanks. Why should we nerf the primary function in order to move them into another niche already neatly occupied by Warriors? It's like everyone moving one space to the left instead of the new guy just sitting in an already-empty seat.

As for the rest of the argument, I'm with RP. We don't know, we won't know, and honestly, I for one couldn't care less.
#12 Dec 30 2007 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Paladins are already the supreme AoE tanks.

keyword: already. pre-WoTLK. post-WoTLK may bring new mechanics and new strategies to help overcome certain encounters. similar to how pallies are pre and post BC. Moroes and Maiden are teh suck w/o your pally healers. other healers weren't nerfed, pallies' abilities were utilized.

now imagine a you're level 76 in a 5-man and there is a group of 5 non-elite casters that shoot 2k frostbolts. the pally wont hold much aggro with consecrates and is taking frost dmg up the wazoo. 3 heals and the healer gets aggro from 2 mobs...dead...wipe. in comes the DK with 'magic absorb shield', throws an aoe 'shadowstrike' and tags all 5 mobs for 1.5k from range, draws the mobs and does a 2H 'cleave' for 500 dmg each, mage moves in for the AE dance. loot em, move on.

pallies still have there place, as do warriors and druids...but now we have another option. just throwing out hypotheticals.
#13 Dec 30 2007 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know exactly what tanking niche Blizzard expects the DK to fill.

I do know that at present, the idea is that the DK will be a DPS/Tank hybrid. Tanking mechanics and style aside, this makes them a favorable offtank. When their mob is dead, they'd be able to contribute something meaningful to the main-mark. This is the same situation where Druid off-tanks are sometimes more desirable than pally off-tanks in raids.

If the DK utilizes AoE tanking abilities, they'll be taking a bite out of pally main-tanks in 5-man and raid trash situations as well.

We'll certainly have to wait for more information before we can come up with anything but idle speculation, but right now I don't see a place for another tank. Pallies are already the masters of threat generation and management, Warriors and Druids have all the abilities needed to lock a single target (or even a few) on them (esp. for prolonged fights). All three have their own cohesion of avoidance, mitigation, and health. The only thing I can think of is if new situations are introduced in WotLK, unlike those seen so far, that require a different style of tank altogether.
#14 Dec 30 2007 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Are you sure redirecting damage from the tank to other people is a good thing for a main tank?


I dunno, might be easier to handle. Throw out a couple hundred damage per hit to the 14k hp warlock in the team. Make him use that hp.
#15 Dec 31 2007 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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814 posts
Quote:
I don't know exactly what tanking niche Blizzard expects the DK to fill.


My guess is that it will focus on mitigating magic. I mean none of the 3 tank classes we have now can shrug off magic damage compared to how a feral bear takes those physical hits.

Another possibility I think could happen is that they will be like a DW Enh Shaman mixed with a lock. They could put buffs on their weapons that constantly debuff or curse the target, while also draining the opponents HP for the DK's use. Of course they will have to make the attacks considerably weak but provide much threat so the DK does not become OP in PvP.

Other then that I dont know. I must say I am quite interested in what Blizz will do with this as a DW tank specc certainly caught me off guard.
#16 Jan 01 2008 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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I mean none of the 3 tank classes we have now can shrug off magic damage compared to how a feral bear takes those physical hits.


I dunno, complete damage reflection seems to take care of it pretty well.
#17 Jan 01 2008 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing shrugs off anything like a Feral tank taking physical hits. But Protadins already have a 10% spell damage reduction and Warriors top out at 16%, I believe. I'm not really sure what else you want.

I really don't think it's necessary that you're all trying so hard. The DK doesn't need to fill a new niche. I'd argue that the current tanks we have now don't need to be assigned niches either. Optimally, every tanking class should be able to tank in every situation. That hurts no one and helps everyone, giving everyone the option to play whatever kind of tank they want for no reason other than they happen to like the eway it works and enjoy it. It's my sincere hope that at level 80, that will be the case or at least close to it.
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