I need some talented adviceFollow

so i was researching and trying things out and i came up with this build,but what to spend my last 3 points on slip my grasp, i decieded to grab improved ret aura because i use it so much and after all most our threat is from being hit or so i have noticed i may use a resistance aure once in a while but thats about it and i heard in raids you shouldnt be at less then 50% health so adernt def seems usless and reckoning procs less and less

p.s. i plan on raiding so give me your thoughts

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005305033300021025210510520500030200000000000

lol that was my mistake i miss calculated no i should probaly max that but even if i did i would still have one point and most healers are holy palidins on my server

It doesn't matter if it's before or after, it's going to be reduced by the same amount.

Example, if you are going to get hit by 1000 damage and you have 50% mitigation.

1000 x 50% = 500 x 35% = 175

1000 x 35% = 350 x 50% = 175


And you can throw that last point in BoK if you'd like.

Since it is "all damage taken" I would assume it doesn't matter if it's before or after. Case in point, you have 50% damage reduction from armor, 30% DR from AD. A mob hits for 2000:
Armor reduces it to 1000, AD reduces that to 700.
AD reduces it to 1400, Armor reduces that to 700.
BoSanc wouldnt help much anyway, and bosanc is before all the other mitigation (but get bosanc to get holy shield). Back on the note of AD, if you have 14000 HP, AD would only work when you have less than 4900 health. If you're down there, you're probably going to get 1-shotted either way.

As far as your build goes, imp ret aura wont help much on the boss fights, where you will want devotion aura up. Ret Aura is only really helpful on multiple mobs.
Anticipation...if you have 490 defense without it, dont bother getting it. If you need the talent points to get to 490 defense, then use it.

Dont rule out BoK, it's more useful the better your gear, and is great especially in 25-mans where you have people speccing for certain stats (such as survival hunters).

Reckoning, while being a great talent in PvP or soloing, is not good for raids. It's good you left that out.

Avenger's shield, unless you have the talent point to spare when you're done, is also not necessary for raids. You can always have a hunter MD you and then pull, or just pull with arcane shot rank 1 and pick up the adds with concecrate.

You can also look in holy, the 5 points in divine intellect would be very helpful to increase your mana pool. Although I'm not sure how much your mana pool would suffer while you get healed up from raid boss damage.

5/41/15 is what I would recommend.

One more talent I'd like to look at:
PoJ - Good, but I believe not necessary on most fights.

EDIT: Jack, it's 30%, not 35% (haha I made the same mistake I just corrected it BEFORE I posted it).

Edited, Dec 28th 2007 2:48pm by skribs

The 5 points in DI is really not necessary. Most Paladin tanks don't have much int anyway, so increasing it by 10% is hardly going to do much or be very useful. In raids as a tank you are constantly being healed, so you are rarely mana starved.

Avenger's Shield is pretty useful, it's a ton of frontload threat and even if you aren't pulling, it can be used in the absence of a taunt to try to pull large groups of mobs back on you. It is definately more useful than DI.

Spending the points in Anticipation means you don't have to spend the points in gear and you can focus on other stats instead of trying to keep your defense above 490. Also defense points give the most full avoidance percentages so that's nice too.

(I forget if it's 30 or 35, in the end I decided I just didn't care enough to look it up.)

yes i have found avengers sheild very useful its a nice threat boost never thought of using it like a taunt cool i will try next time some >.< rogue tries to off tank, i also like spell warding with that and imp rd thats 10% reduced spell dmg

No no no, when it's the rogue jumping the gun, you BoP them. It's fun how it confuses them whenthey can't attack

But yes, spell warding is a must as it's really the only thing you really have to mitigate spell damage in addition to RF.

I'd listen to Jack most here for Prot advice as well (alongside me of course ^^). Check my build out, it's the first link in my sig.

I'm one of the people who swear by Ardent Defender, but I'm in agreement that if you're not going to invest full talents in it, don't really bother with it: 5/5 or nothin. Some people say it sucks because raid bosses can "leapfrog" it, but you're not just tanking raid bosses are you? It's saved my skin lots of times when things have gone bad, healer's been oom, whatever the case may be.

Definently max out Anticipation. Even if you can/do get to 490 Defense through gear only, the 20 from Anticipation is still giving you some Dodge/Block/Parry chance to help with you getting uncrushable.

Really, I've never had a problem missing my target too much, spell or melee, so I'd advise against Precision. It's nice for a Ret, but you really shouldn't need it much as a Prot.

And yea, as Jack stated, you won't be needing DI. Unless I'm overgearing an instance I hardly ever run too low on mana to tank effectively, which if that's the case I swap out lower quality gear (which also makes a lower repair bill). Lower quality gear > taking more damage > regaining more mana :)