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A couple of paladin questionsFollow

#1 Dec 28 2007 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
17 posts
That either I can't find answers for or I didn't look hard enough to find. I'm hoping it's the former.

First I'd like to say thanks to Captain Jack and the other scholars around here, you guys have made this the best class forum on alla in my opinion and I have checked the other ones quite a bit to get a feel of how I should play with them and if I ever wanted to make an alt.


I'm only a level 18 human paladin on Thrall, oh and I'm planning on being Protection.

So onto the questions.

What is a good add-on for tracking the duration of my Seals? I feel that I'm losing out on possible damage by either Judging too early or letting the seal run off.

I play with a party of myself, a rogue, and a mage. I'm there for healing and tanking. I find that my tanking is more important than healing as I only have to heal myself and as long as we aren't fighting 4 or more mobs I can heal pretty easily. But I'm considering respecing over into Holy so that I can pick up Spiritual Focus for when we do have those nasty occasions of adds and "I didn't see that guy behind the rock". But I'm not sure if the loss in Prot of Redoubt and Toughness is an equal trade. We are planning on AoE grinding eventually. So basically porcupine + blizzard with a rogue stabbing stuff. So what in your opinion is the best approach? After heroics I'll probably respec into a 41/20/0 build.

Just to clear something up just in case I have to argue this point at a later date inside of a PUG or something. Paladins make better 5 man tanks than warriors because of porcupine and righteous defense? We can more easily hold aggro on more mobs and do damage to them all at the same time plus self heal with seal of light and/or FoL when it's needed. Oh and consecrate. Is that basically it? Thats not including blessings and stuff. But at end game even as great as our Protection is our secondary ability to heal outweighs the secondary ability of a Warrior to DPS?







#2 Dec 28 2007 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
nicthaninja wrote:
But at end game even as great as our Protection is our secondary ability to heal outweighs the secondary ability of a Warrior to DPS?


Tanks don't heal while tanking(and you'll find your SoL pretty lacking at level 70 in instance runs). Period. The ability to heal doesn't play into why paladins are great 5-man tanks.

You pretty much had it prior to that point though. They hold great multi-mob aggro with a multi-mob taunt. The additional benefit is that most of the threat gen is up-front so there's no "Wait for 2 sunders" business meaning even the least competent DPS that has to count on their fingers can't ***** up the threat table toooo badly. (but they can try, oh yes. And they will.)
#3 Dec 28 2007 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
Well I got a couple replies.

FIRST AND FOREMOST!

Quote:
First I'd like to say thanks to Captain Jack and the other scholars around here, you guys have made this the best class forum on alla in my opinion


Aww shucks *blush*


SECOND AND NOT-AS-FOREMOST!

Quote:
What is a good add-on for tracking the duration of my Seals? I feel that I'm losing out on possible damage by either Judging too early or letting the seal run off.


I'm not sure about an add-on for tracking seals. The best thing I can tell you is that the best time to judge a seal is immediately after swinging your weapon. This should give you enough time to bring it back up before your next weapon swing.


THIRDLY AND WHY-IS-IT-EVEN-HERE?!

Quote:
But I'm not sure if the loss in Prot of Redoubt and Toughness is an equal trade. We are planning on AoE grinding eventually. So basically porcupine + blizzard with a rogue stabbing stuff. So what in your opinion is the best approach? After heroics I'll probably respec into a 41/20/0 build.


If you were saying that you just started your Paladin I would have advised you to start in ret and respec at around 35 or 40 to get into prot. However you're already lvl 18 so no point in doing it now. Just keep pushing down protection and get a shield spike if you can. When you need to heal, use Seal of Light/Judgement of Light and that should keep you alive pretty well.
#4 Dec 28 2007 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Quote:

If you were saying that you just started your Paladin I would have advised you to start in ret and respec at around 35 or 40 to get into prot. However you're already lvl 18 so no point in doing it now. Just keep pushing down protection and get a shield spike if you can. When you need to heal, use Seal of Light/Judgement of Light and that should keep you alive pretty well.


That's for non-instance material. Inside of instances, find a healer, dont try to heal yourself.

(When I first started I tried to both tank and heal deadmines at level 25 in all whites...it was not a pretty sight).
#5 Dec 28 2007 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
17 posts
So I'll respec into Retribution.

And then jump over to Prot around 35. Kinda like playing a Shaman as Ele until I could get 2H when I last played.

I'll see a DPS increase and really won't lose much it looks in my defensive abilities at this level.


#6 Dec 28 2007 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
Alrighty, happy hunting!
#7 Dec 28 2007 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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343 posts
Well, you see you want to get that spec so that you can make this spec, knowing that you had that spec and missing it while you work towards this other spec.... ahh, more rum!!!

Things to note:

Quote:
Tanks don't heal while tanking(and you'll find your SoL pretty lacking at level 70 in instance runs). Period.

Hard to cast as 4 or 5 guys are pounding on you. Yes, there's a bubble... every 5? min.

As for seals... I use CT buff mod. There are enough options that you could narrow it down to just your seals. You don't need the whole package, just the buff mod ( http://www.ctmod.net/downloads/ ) and to open the controls it's /ct buffmod

Have fun!



#8 Dec 28 2007 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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85 posts
I have CT Buff mod also. Works pretty well for me.

I agree that Pally tanks shouldn't be healing much in a 5-man instance, but having the ability to throw a quick heal is a blessing. I can't count the number of times I've saved myself from death with an emergency 1.5 sec heal while waiting for the healer's big heal. If you picked up Spiritual Focus, you can heal yourself even with a few mobs pounding you.

Being able to heal makes pallies great off-tanks, imo. Great for those long fights that tax the main healer's mana or for healing up the party after heavy AOE damage.
#9 Dec 28 2007 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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3,339 posts
BlackoutCC wrote:
Being able to heal makes pallies great off-tanks, imo. Great for those long fights that tax the main healer's mana or for healing up the party after heavy AOE damage.


Except for the fact that they're either doing no damage and are therefore not second on threat or they're completely out of mana before the healer they're supposed to be backing up is...
#10 Dec 28 2007 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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85 posts
Celcio wrote:
Except for the fact that they're either doing no damage and are therefore not second on threat or they're completely out of mana before the healer they're supposed to be backing up is...


It's not that hard to stay 2nd on the threat table if you're throwing a few heals every now and then when they're needed. As for mana, you don't need to throw out consecrates as the OT, so you shouldn't be blowing through your mana that fast. I did this alot as a hybrid spec until the high 60's, so I know it works. You certainly won't be rocking the damage meters though.
#11 Dec 30 2007 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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277 posts
nicthaninja wrote:

What is a good add-on for tracking the duration of my Seals? I feel that I'm losing out on possible damage by either Judging too early or letting the seal run off.


There is an option in the interface options that shows all buff durations underneath them. Since seals count as buffs, you can easily see when the 30 timer is about to run out. As you play more though, you will soon learn to judge how long you have left on your seal without looking (its only roughly timing 30seconds anyway!).
#12 Jan 03 2008 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
What is a good add-on for tracking the duration of my Seals? I feel that I'm losing out on possible damage by either Judging too early or letting the seal run off.


I use ElkBuffBars.

http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5101-ElkanosBuffBars.html

I really like how it stacks my buffs in order of duration, and shows the time left as a "progress bar". I haven't tried CT Buff, so I don't know which is better or not.


#13 Jan 03 2008 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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2,183 posts
BlackoutCC wrote:
Celcio wrote:
Except for the fact that they're either doing no damage and are therefore not second on threat or they're completely out of mana before the healer they're supposed to be backing up is...


It's not that hard to stay 2nd on the threat table if you're throwing a few heals every now and then when they're needed. As for mana, you don't need to throw out consecrates as the OT, so you shouldn't be blowing through your mana that fast. I did this alot as a hybrid spec until the high 60's, so I know it works. You certainly won't be rocking the damage meters though.


Except for our heals causing 1/4 threat, even "buffed" by Righteous Fury, that's still lower than other healers right? You won't be staying high on the threat list by throwing out some heals, and you'll be wasting mana on weak heals that could be spent on some real threat abilities.

Healing while tanking may have worked in SM, but it'll never work at 70. You can't block or parry while casting, so chances are you're taking more damage than you're going to heal anyway.
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