Hunter TanksFollow

Disclaimer: I know Hunters are not meant to tank. But I'm 70, bored, and want to try it out. I know I'll not be able to tank high-end stuff, but what about the easier of the 70 instances? I admit that we will be vastly inferior to other tanking classes, but what if?

What separates a Druid tank from a Hunter tank? A bunch of things. Druids in bear form have higher armor, higher health, and better agro gaining tools (IE: taunt) than a Hunter has. What makes them the same? Both rely on dodge to tank. Considering that Hunters stack Agi as a primary stat, a Hunter's dodge can really get up there.

Now here's my theory. While we don't get any type of "defense" boosting skills, we can become (Or really close to) uncrittable via Resilience. Because Druids, once uncrittable, stack dodge, why can't Hunters do the same?

According to the "Defense and Mitigation" sticky in the Paladin forums, level 73 mobs (IE: Bosses) have a 5.6% chance to crit. Thus, by stacking enough resilience to reduce the crit chance by 5.6%, we become uncrittable. (Thus is my understanding. Please feel free to correct me) True, we are NOT immune to crushing blows, and that is why we stack dodge.

According to my calculations (Which could be entirely wrong, but it seems to fit.), you need about 221 resilience to reduce critical strikes by 5.6%. How to get this much? Use PvP gear! PvP also just happens to have high armor/stamina values, making it perfect for a Hunter tank.

Hunters get a lovely skill called Aspect of the Monkey that, when improved via talents, gives a 14% chance to dodge. Combined with a Hunter's natural high agility, it is possible for one to reach 30%+ dodge. (Without the improved Aspect, and with gear gemmed for Marksman [Yes, LOLMARKS] I have a 22.19% dodge)

I've put together a talent build for a tanking Hunter: clicky and I was wondering this: Is it worth spending points in Master Tactician just to get Readiness?

Using Deterrence twice in a boss fight could be quite invaluable, but are the wasted points in Master Tactician worth it? I've put points in things that would improve a Hunter's melee DPS as they need to hold agro of course ^^. The way I see it, you'd open up the pull with a Wyvern Sting, Aimed Shot, and a pre-set Immolation Trap. From there you could drop an Explosive Trap for additional threat. Assuming you have a hard hitting weapon (Season 3 axe anyone?) you *should* be able to hold threat assuming your DPS is smart.

So here's my theory. Any help, information, corrections, or tips would be helpful. No, I'm normally this stupid, but I just wanted a break from the monotony of Steady Shot/Auto Shot spamming.

Thanks for reading this.



Edited, Dec 27th 2007 3:35pm by Zeromatter

I agree, I don't think you could hold aggro. The build would be dps inefficient and thus you wouldn't trigger the standard things that tick off most mobs and make them come after a hunter. Next, you can only wear mail and that's not tough enougth to tank most high level elites or bosses.

I've watched enough Rogues with far better melee skills try to tank and end up very dead, just no durability there. It doesn't mean much if you can avoid getting hit by 9 out of 10 strikes if the one that hits you kills you instantly. No healer can prevent a massive blow taking you down fast. Add in a stun or anything debilitating and you are dead meat.

We just aren't geared or designed for any serious tanking. You could probably tank normal stuff though, not efficiently, but still pull it off most of the time. The pet would make a better tank though.

If you're bored, try to make a super pet tank. Massive damage absorber and deals max dps from the pet side.

I just don't see this as possible. Your flaw is in the logic regarding Druids and Hunters both relying on Dodge to tank. This is not completely true. Yes you can get a high level of Dodge, but you're still only wearing Mail.

Dire Bear gets a 400% (without talents) boost to armor rating which helps lessen the damage taken when they do get hit. Even with 30% Dodge, it still means you're getting hit 7 out of 10 times. It doesn't matter if you can mitigate Crit with Resilience. You're also still going to take Crushing Blows 15% of the time. White damage will be high.

And that's just normal attacks. What about boss specials that take huge chunks out of even plate-wearers?

This is of course not even addressing the threat issue that a couple of posters already brought up. With all that damage you'd be taking, there's no way you can keep aggro against the Healing Threat needed to keep you alive.

Umm I have an idea for you.

If you are bored at 70 and you like to tank, roll a druid. That class is amazing, it is fun to play and you get a lot less laughed at than a huntard tank.

But for the sake of argument. I have a rather ok equiped hunter and a druid with whom I can easily tank 10mans and the easier 25man encounters.

Apart from being unable to hold aggro with your hunter-tank (the problem is, once you have aggro you are forced into melee where you'll not generate much aggro), the mitigation will not be enough to tank more than one or two mobs in a non-heroic instance. And even then your healer will have to use a lot more mana on you than on every other tank.

Just to give you an idea of how big the difference is. Here are the unbuffed stats of my hunter (with some arena gear) and my druid with his tank gear in bear form (all values are unbuffed values).

Hunter:
7k armor (~39% mitigation)
10.7k HP (~13-14k with full raid buffs)
350def / 120 resilence
27% dodge (without aspect of the monkey)

Druid:
31k armor (75% mitigation)
13.5k HP (~19-20k with full raid buffs)
433 def / 0 resilence (crit immune, and a bit unneeded extra def)
34% dodge

As you can see my druid gets hit less often (and dodge will go up a lot with raid buffs and potions) and when he is hit, he takes a lot! less damage. He also has a lot of extra HP which allow for even more hit before a heal comes in.

Basically a hunter will never be able to tank more serious opponents. The trash which can be beaten half asleep might be "tankable" by a hunter, but then nearly every other class will be able to tank that mob (e.g. a shadow priest who has less problems holding aggro and takes 20% less damage in shadow form which puts his mitigation above hunter's mitigation.

Forgive me, but I don't see where a hunter going for the tank role is interesting.

i have seen a few hunters that think they can tank and its crazy

you may be ok to off tank with your pet but never survive long enough to do that great an amount of damage , i guess as survival spec and dropping loads of traps under the mobs you may just survive against the lower mobs but not against the bosses

agree there are lots of better things to do if your bored.

but with that said sure you could prob be able to tank lv70 instances but it will be really inefficent, basicly youd be a decoy, something to keep the mobs attention for a few sec while the party kills them.
thunderfury would prob still be a great wep for you to have if you want to try tanking or any new aoe proc wep+ a very good/overgeared healer or 2 :)

bottomline, since nefarian in BWL was possible to tank by a hunter i really cant see why a lv70 instance shouldnt be, justmake sure the party is made up by friends of yours.if you do it with a pug i have a feeling you will have trouble getting the group full and you would prob be forever remebered as the servers biggest huntard :P

anyways good luck

He is thinking of a funny idea like doing something out of your class and see how well it works. More of just a joke I'm sure. Kind of like how my rogue at 24 tanked VC cause we couldn't get a healer/tank. We had a Pali who ended up healing me cause of above reason. lol.

A hunter could, but it wouldn't work very well. Kiting sacrifices DPS for survivability. You get off less shots in a short period of time, but overall do more. Part of kiting is the mana-efficiency of using arcane shot rank 1, which adds very little threat. You could use higher ranks but you'd drink a lot.
Also, distracting shot's threat on a well-geared hunter is less than that of even auto-shot. Meaning you'd generate the threat of a rogue auto-attacking and spamming feint with bosalv on.

A hunter PET makes a better tank than the hunter, and I've actually tanked the boss on regular mana tombs with my pet (tank left, we just found another DPS and jumped in). Took us 3 tries and on the 3rd try I combat rezzed my pet twice, the fight ended with the healer dying from the adds after finishing off the boss. But hey, at least we got our loot! The point of this story? Hunters are not designed to tank, at all.

Was said boomkin in full T6 or something?

I've seen a 70 Hunter tank all of The Underbog.

And of course Hunters are great at "tanking" Kiggler the Crazed.

The only time my hunter tanks is when escorting a guidlie through an instance and said noob aggros some mobs. A fire trap pulls them all to me to keep his foolish *** alive.

Gweryc Halfhand. Read the stuff before the Arena stuff. ZG offtank.

http://meleehunter.blogspot.com/

Whoops, I meant pre-BC.