I got lucky at the beginning of season 3 and got into a 3v3 with a very competent PvPers alt. After the 3v3 fell apart (feral druid couldn't cope with his spec and lack of gear keeping us from crossing 1600) the guy who invited me to the team tells me "You have decent gear, but you play very well, I want to get you on my mains 3v3 and maybe 5v5. We'll get you geared up and into high end PvP where you belong."
I was shocked, having sat in the 1400-1550 area for the majority for season2 (the weeks i actually played) I was discouraged. I knew my gear was holding me back, but I figured I also did not play as well as I should have. Well since I had gotten a full set of welfare epics the first day of season3 (hit the 75k honor cap early October) I was planning on doing everything I could to get onto a decent team, and I figured if I had a skill gap to fill I could learn on the way up to the top. It was good to know that a member of a well respected team (they were about 50 points away from gladiator title and ended with duelist) thought I was a good player (and it was just the confidence booster I needed)
Anyways, the point of my post: our 3v3 team is now stuck at and around 1800, our highest is 1839 and this past saturday we managed to crash the rating down to 1714 (the other two just did not want to stop even though we continued to lose.) Our team makeup has been Disc priest SL/SL warlock and me (rogue) The warlock also tried demonology spec for a while. Both of my partners are in gear superior to mine (3/5 merc 2/5 venge and all updated non-set epics) so it's obvious that I am the weak link, especially vs warrior teams.
Last night we changed our line up and in place of the warlock we had a very well geared warrior running with us. We did pretty great and got up to 1770something. I know we are better than this (them more so than I) and I come here, asking the rogue community for help.
Is there anything I should be doing specifically as a rogue in 3v3? My main job thus far has been to get on the opposing teams warlock and keep him from chain fearing or draining or shadowbolt spamming everyone. If the opposing team has no Warlock I either take down their priest (if there is one) or me and the lock/warrior FF their DPS. I throw out a sap if I can and try to land a well timed blind every 90 seconds.
I don't know what our problem is right now, we have solid plans and our execution seems spot on as well, but we just end up losing some matches that it seems we shouldn't and I can't figure out why.
Here is my armory. Maybe there is something I have done terribly wrong on my character that could use some correcting?
If my explanation and questions are too vague and more specific information is needed to address my issues please feel free to ask and I will respond in greater detail.
Also worth mentioning, the priest on my team has a well geared pally on the 3v3 team too, maybe running with the pally instead could help us (I'm thinking me warrior and pally would be better than me warrior priest, I could be wrong though)
Sorry for such a long post.
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I also wanted to ask, should I get updated weapons or armor first? I know even though we are having problems now our rating will be over 1850 soon enough, and I don't know if i should keep getting my s3 armor or should I save points now and get the weapons once we crack 1850.
8 posts
Not sure what it is your doing wrong (If anything) But in regards to your latter question, go with weapons first, without a doubt, especially the main hand. You should notice a big diffrence.
Weapons first.
As for your role, it goes as such (depending on your partner). I roll with a priest/war/rogue so I'll tell you our strats.
1.) Evaluate enemy healer i.e. what are they?
2.) Act accordingly.
Druid: Go for the softest DPS first. The druid will not be able to heal through x2 heavy physical damage. Have your priest blow fear at around 75% on the DPS'rs health. The druid will more than likely panic and trinket out of it. As soon as he's out of the fear, blow your blind. Even if the druid didn't trinket out of the first fear and trinkets out, the DPS'r will have a MS up on him and will have you and the war on him for a good -10 seconds without heals. Make sure you make it easy on the warrior to kill the dps'r (i.e. if they're a rogue you should stun them with KS if you're combat and if you're HARP you should vanish and CS).
Priest: Go for the priest. Keep him stunlocked and silenced so the war can stay on him without getting feared. Pop cloak prematurely to avoid the fear yourself. Have your priest drop a fear bomb on the group at the start, and when they come back have the war do it. One rogue can keep a priest locked forever. If you can do that while you also have a warrior beating on it, then wow.
Shaman: Target shaman first. They are actually easier to kill than a priest is and you can again keep them locked down while the warrior pounds them into submission. Setting up a kick/pummel rotation makes it very very easy too. Follow the same CC as with a priest.
Paladin: Target a DPS'r. Have your priest mana burn the pally and drop fears regularly. Be fast on the mass dispel of BoF and BoP and blind the pally when the DPS'r hits 50%. This will cause a bubble, to which you can just dispel it then have the war fear him.
Two Healers: Go for the DPS. You'll hardly ever run into a 2 man healer set up in the higher brackets, but if you do you can just lock down the DPS while the healers sit there running out of mana.
GL
As for your role, it goes as such (depending on your partner). I roll with a priest/war/rogue so I'll tell you our strats.
1.) Evaluate enemy healer i.e. what are they?
2.) Act accordingly.
Druid: Go for the softest DPS first. The druid will not be able to heal through x2 heavy physical damage. Have your priest blow fear at around 75% on the DPS'rs health. The druid will more than likely panic and trinket out of it. As soon as he's out of the fear, blow your blind. Even if the druid didn't trinket out of the first fear and trinkets out, the DPS'r will have a MS up on him and will have you and the war on him for a good -10 seconds without heals. Make sure you make it easy on the warrior to kill the dps'r (i.e. if they're a rogue you should stun them with KS if you're combat and if you're HARP you should vanish and CS).
Priest: Go for the priest. Keep him stunlocked and silenced so the war can stay on him without getting feared. Pop cloak prematurely to avoid the fear yourself. Have your priest drop a fear bomb on the group at the start, and when they come back have the war do it. One rogue can keep a priest locked forever. If you can do that while you also have a warrior beating on it, then wow.
Shaman: Target shaman first. They are actually easier to kill than a priest is and you can again keep them locked down while the warrior pounds them into submission. Setting up a kick/pummel rotation makes it very very easy too. Follow the same CC as with a priest.
Paladin: Target a DPS'r. Have your priest mana burn the pally and drop fears regularly. Be fast on the mass dispel of BoF and BoP and blind the pally when the DPS'r hits 50%. This will cause a bubble, to which you can just dispel it then have the war fear him.
Two Healers: Go for the DPS. You'll hardly ever run into a 2 man healer set up in the higher brackets, but if you do you can just lock down the DPS while the healers sit there running out of mana.
GL
Quote:
Pop cloak prematurely to avoid the fear yourself.
Don't do this. Your Priest should be dispeling the fear.
Watch videos. Go to Warcraftmovies.com and find any Rogue movie you can, regardless of spec. Watch each movie 3-5 times and see if you can't come up with a short list of beneficial things the person did for each movie. Analyze each thing, and see how you could utilize(and more importantly, when) all the different tricks they use.
I'd listen to Teddy over me, although I'll be damned if he doesn't agree with every other tactic I said.
Never ever ever pop cooldowns early. Save them til you know that you for sure need to use them.
Shaolinz wrote:
I'd listen to Teddy over me, although I'll be damned if he doesn't agree with every other tactic I said.
Well... you were 4/5. Not to bad...
MYteddy wrote:
Watch videos. Go to Warcraftmovies.com and find any Rogue movie you can, regardless of spec. Watch each movie 3-5 times and see if you can't come up with a short list of beneficial things the person did for each movie. Analyze each thing, and see how you could utilize(and more importantly, when) all the different tricks they use.
Games like this one are supposed to be FUN! You're treating it like school. :(
Jk. I have to do it too.
Quote:
Games like this one are supposed to be FUN! You're treating it like school. :(
Jk. I have to do it too.
Jk. I have to do it too.
Which is why I'm qutting as soon as school starts back up. I don't have fun with this game anymore. I felt this for awhile, but I didn't really realize how much I hated WoW till I got my new wii games for Christmas. I actually smiled while playing those, I don't remember the last time I had a good moment on WoW that wasn't completely ruined 3-4 seconds later.
Your armory shows you with no gear and deep Subtlety spec. I think I may have found the problem?
Have you tried 0/31/30? At least until 2.3.2 hits it's extremely strong, and it'll get you some 'free' wins until the talent roulette spins again.
Have you tried 0/31/30? At least until 2.3.2 hits it's extremely strong, and it'll get you some 'free' wins until the talent roulette spins again.
More of a team thing, I find that most teams have issues bouncing between targets like when the FF target isn't static or obvious. The sooner you guys learn to alternate CC and alternate DPS on differing targets through a fight, the quicker your rating will climb. If this doesn't apply to you or your team, ignore :P
Quite honestly though unless you mention specific match ups there really isn't anything we can say to improve your effectiveness in arenas because we don't know what you should be doing. So I am gonna ask what match ups specifically you are having issues with?
Quite honestly though unless you mention specific match ups there really isn't anything we can say to improve your effectiveness in arenas because we don't know what you should be doing. So I am gonna ask what match ups specifically you are having issues with?
Thank you to all who responded.
Armory is back to what it should be (I was wearing a wedding dress as a part of a complex joke) and yes I know my spec isn't 30/31, and that could very well be why my team is now sitting at a lovely 1680 or 1670 something (team leader does not know when to call it quits for the day despite me telling him to stop putting us in Queue)
I don't like AR/Prep spec, every Rogue uses it so it is expected and easily countered. If I face off with a rogue and see him pop AR and/or Evasion I just Shiv on some crippling CoS his crippling and kite him until AR wears off, and if he Preps to AR again I usually try to vanish and stun lock him down until the second AR is gone. I know if I have a very effective strategy against AR/Prep everyone else worth their salt (and thus in the 1700+ brackets) will have one as well. Team coordination only adds to this issue. Popping AR is most likely the quickest way to get myself chain-CCd or FFd.
If I had the honor I would buy maces and switch right now but I do not think I can grind enough honor before the Prep nerf comes in. Is combat maces going to go back to being the standard after the new patch? I am well aware of the drawbacks of a subtlety spec, but there are some very tasty talents in there (lolstep included) however if it would be a general consensus that my spec is what is holding us back I would switch in a heart beat.
I downloaded a few Neilyo videos long ago and thats where I learned most of the arena/PvP tricks I know and use. I have also watched a few other videos from some talented Rogues and try to emulate them as much as possible. My reaction time is something I have been working on and I am very pleased with how it has progressed. That is some very solid advice MYteddy, it's a shame more people don't do this. (actually on second thought it's a good thing, since I won't arena with another rogue, only against them, I only hope more people STOP learning to be good at their classes that would solve all my problems :P)
So I assume since no one disputed this, that I should definately go for my weapons first? Should I just suck it up and get those incredibly fugly ridiculously retarded looking s3 maces, or, if at all possible, is the supposed sub buffs going to make it more viable and I would be ok in getting swords?
In all actuality I cannot go wrong with maces, I guess I'll just get them (I think I have been playing female characters too long I almost value aesthetics over functionality, no offense ladies, it's just a joke)
Warriors warriors warriors. I can't afford to FF them because as a melee team they mitigate too much damage and it's difficult to ignore them because they stick to me like glue. (and effectively tear me a new one)
Also on the problems list is druids (resto) Shaolinz gave some good advice in regards to them I'll take this into account next time I arena.
Then there is the Warrior x2 + Resto Druid teams that would fall to many many different 3v3 set ups, but absolutely chews my team up and sh*ts us out in record time. My stance on these teams are that we should just take the loss because I cannot think of any way to possibly beat them. Hopefully you guys have something for me in this area.
Thank you again to everyone who responded, I love the Rogue community here and I greatly respect your opinions. Also, sorry for the very long post I had some computer issues these past few days and have not been able to get back on here and reply until today.
EDIT: Hahaha I called it 30/31 instead of 31/30 just take a moment to laugh at the ridiculousness that would be a worthless 30/31
Edited, Dec 29th 2007 11:14pm by FinalRare
RPZip wrote:
Your armory shows you with no gear and deep Subtlety spec. I think I may have found the problem?
Armory is back to what it should be (I was wearing a wedding dress as a part of a complex joke) and yes I know my spec isn't 30/31, and that could very well be why my team is now sitting at a lovely 1680 or 1670 something (team leader does not know when to call it quits for the day despite me telling him to stop putting us in Queue)
I don't like AR/Prep spec, every Rogue uses it so it is expected and easily countered. If I face off with a rogue and see him pop AR and/or Evasion I just Shiv on some crippling CoS his crippling and kite him until AR wears off, and if he Preps to AR again I usually try to vanish and stun lock him down until the second AR is gone. I know if I have a very effective strategy against AR/Prep everyone else worth their salt (and thus in the 1700+ brackets) will have one as well. Team coordination only adds to this issue. Popping AR is most likely the quickest way to get myself chain-CCd or FFd.
If I had the honor I would buy maces and switch right now but I do not think I can grind enough honor before the Prep nerf comes in. Is combat maces going to go back to being the standard after the new patch? I am well aware of the drawbacks of a subtlety spec, but there are some very tasty talents in there (lolstep included) however if it would be a general consensus that my spec is what is holding us back I would switch in a heart beat.
MYteddy wrote:
Watch videos. Go to Warcraftmovies.com and find any Rogue movie you can, regardless of spec. Watch each movie 3-5 times and see if you can't come up with a short list of beneficial things the person did for each movie. Analyze each thing, and see how you could utilize(and more importantly, when) all the different tricks they use.
I downloaded a few Neilyo videos long ago and thats where I learned most of the arena/PvP tricks I know and use. I have also watched a few other videos from some talented Rogues and try to emulate them as much as possible. My reaction time is something I have been working on and I am very pleased with how it has progressed. That is some very solid advice MYteddy, it's a shame more people don't do this. (actually on second thought it's a good thing, since I won't arena with another rogue, only against them, I only hope more people STOP learning to be good at their classes that would solve all my problems :P)
Simpley wrote:
Not sure what it is your doing wrong (If anything) But in regards to your latter question, go with weapons first, without a doubt, especially the main hand. You should notice a big diffrence.
Shaolinz wrote:
Weapons first.
So I assume since no one disputed this, that I should definately go for my weapons first? Should I just suck it up and get those incredibly fugly ridiculously retarded looking s3 maces, or, if at all possible, is the supposed sub buffs going to make it more viable and I would be ok in getting swords?
In all actuality I cannot go wrong with maces, I guess I'll just get them (I think I have been playing female characters too long I almost value aesthetics over functionality, no offense ladies, it's just a joke)
ElementHuman wrote:
So I am gonna ask what match ups specifically you are having issues with?
Warriors warriors warriors. I can't afford to FF them because as a melee team they mitigate too much damage and it's difficult to ignore them because they stick to me like glue. (and effectively tear me a new one)
Also on the problems list is druids (resto) Shaolinz gave some good advice in regards to them I'll take this into account next time I arena.
Then there is the Warrior x2 + Resto Druid teams that would fall to many many different 3v3 set ups, but absolutely chews my team up and sh*ts us out in record time. My stance on these teams are that we should just take the loss because I cannot think of any way to possibly beat them. Hopefully you guys have something for me in this area.
Thank you again to everyone who responded, I love the Rogue community here and I greatly respect your opinions. Also, sorry for the very long post I had some computer issues these past few days and have not been able to get back on here and reply until today.
EDIT: Hahaha I called it 30/31 instead of 31/30 just take a moment to laugh at the ridiculousness that would be a worthless 30/31
Edited, Dec 29th 2007 11:14pm by FinalRare
What teams in particular are beating you alot? Is it varied or do certain setups just seem to roll you?
As a lock, I think pally/rogue/lock sounds promising. A locks main problem is a rogue or warrior on them. Having a quick BoF can really help there, and they can really help our mobility against rogues. They can also stun rogues off us, cleanse poison, BoP, I think it has potential. A problem is you can't mass dispell ice block, or have access to pain suppression. But I still think a pally could fit nicely on that team. Warlock feels like the odd one out on a priest/lock/rogue team, you guys would probably do much better with a mage in place of a lock, or a pally instead of a priest.
And for spec, you'd definately want maces, I think spec + weapons is holding you back more then gear. I'm not sure which build I'd take in 2.3.2, either deep combat or maybe shadowstep with maces.
Edit - I guess shadowstep with swords would be the same as shadowstep with maces, but I'd just take maces for the flexibility of being able to respec combat if needed. Unless you're dead set on staying shadowstep, and you really raid hardcore and want the S3 swords, I'd grab the newest maces.
Edited, Dec 30th 2007 3:26pm by mikelolol
As a lock, I think pally/rogue/lock sounds promising. A locks main problem is a rogue or warrior on them. Having a quick BoF can really help there, and they can really help our mobility against rogues. They can also stun rogues off us, cleanse poison, BoP, I think it has potential. A problem is you can't mass dispell ice block, or have access to pain suppression. But I still think a pally could fit nicely on that team. Warlock feels like the odd one out on a priest/lock/rogue team, you guys would probably do much better with a mage in place of a lock, or a pally instead of a priest.
And for spec, you'd definately want maces, I think spec + weapons is holding you back more then gear. I'm not sure which build I'd take in 2.3.2, either deep combat or maybe shadowstep with maces.
Edit - I guess shadowstep with swords would be the same as shadowstep with maces, but I'd just take maces for the flexibility of being able to respec combat if needed. Unless you're dead set on staying shadowstep, and you really raid hardcore and want the S3 swords, I'd grab the newest maces.
Edited, Dec 30th 2007 3:26pm by mikelolol
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