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#1 Dec 26 2007 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
Having put in a couple months of time and tinkered with a couple of classes I've found that my mage stands out as the character I love most. And I've worked him up to 55th over the course of a couple months. I've got a good bit of experience with pulling, AOE combat, and other healthy caster staples from working my way up the ladder in other MMOs, but I've run into a bit of a problem.

I simply have no idea how to put together a great build to take me from my mid 50's and drive me up into the outlands. I was using a pure fire for the longest time, until I ended up running with a few friends to work on some instances, and dropped into deep ice for AOE combat. But I've found that ice is a joke in one to one combat against a single monster, and I haven't a clue why.

To give you an idea, as pure fire I could drop nearly any enemy of appropriate level in about 4 hits (pyroblast, fireball, fire blast, frost nova, then either a fireball finisher or a few bolts from the wand). But ice seems to take 6-8 hits to drop the very same monster (and takes up 1.5X as much mana), and winter's chill seems like a complete joke at this level. Perhaps its something strange in the math, but I used to land one crit on every monster... Some times I'd land two or three -straight- crits, -without- the use of my combustion, it completely baffled me, because my crit rate was 'supposed' to be ~12% (according to my spell stats in the character pane).

So, if my standard crit rate is ~8% and two bolts in I'm at 12%, where is the ludicrous ammount of crits I was getting when I had a 12% chance in pure fire?

And don't get me started on how Winter's Chill doesn't work with blizzard, I almost strangled the respec gnome after that one.

I suppose the question I'm looking to have answered, is what build should a really well equipped mid-50's mage be looking for (mostly for solo play) to drop as many foes as possible, as rapidly as possible, and still manage to have a decent amount of survivability. Fire's looking like the only choice, I've been there, and it was great... but the numbers themselves aren't adding up, and I want to know if I'm 'missing out' on some critical aspect by pouring myself into deep fire.

Any thoughts?
#2 Dec 26 2007 at 3:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kirzen wrote:
I suppose the question I'm looking to have answered, is what build should a really well equipped mid-50's mage be looking for (mostly for solo play) to drop as many foes as possible, as rapidly as possible, and still manage to have a decent amount of survivability. Fire's looking like the only choice, I've been there, and it was great... but the numbers themselves aren't adding up, and I want to know if I'm 'missing out' on some critical aspect by pouring myself into deep fire.

Any thoughts?


There are great aspects to both Deep Frost and Deep Fire for leveling. Link your frost build and I'll see if there was anything specific missing.

Most of your crits should come from Shatter, btw, as a frostie leveling.
#3 Dec 26 2007 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
Hopefully you can view it from this link, was easier just to do a WowReader dump than to try and provide adequate information in text.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?2490431

Even from the sticky reading I've done and googling I've done I know this build needs some serious work, there are some skills in here that don't stack up, and some skills that are unnecessary, and I should probably be stearing away from a pure build into a more balanced arcane/fire or arcane/ice as I drive towards 60, to take advantage of some of the sweet arcane talents. Its important to remember that the above build was designed 'mainly' for AOE, and although I understand its unfair to criticize frost's inability to stack up in 1:1 combat with an AOE build that doesn't include shatter or frostbite... but fire didn't have these problems, it was lethal in AOE -and- in 1:1, and it didn't trade much C/C for it.

So, given that you can see all my current gear and current talents, I'll throw down a couple of build ideas, and let me know what you think.

Deep Arcane / Fire (35/11)
Arcane Subtlety 2
Arcane Focus 3
Arcane Conc. 5
Magic Absorb 5
Arcane Med. 3
Imp. Counter 2
POM 1
Arcane Mind 5
Arcane Pot. 3
Arcane Ins. 3
Spell Power 2
Arcane Power 1
Improved FB 5
Ignite 5
Pyroblast 1

Middle Arcane / Fire (18/28)
Arcane Subtlety 2
Arcane Focus 3
Arcane Conc. 5
Magic Absorb 5
Arcane Med. 3
Improved FB 5
Ignite 5
Flame Throwing 2
Pyroblast 1
Burning Soul 2
Incinerate 2
Improved Scorch 3
Critical Mass 3
Blast Wave 1
Playing W/ Fire 1
Fire Power 3

Deep Fire / Arcane (37/9)
Improved FB 5
Ignite 5
Flame Throwing 2
Pyroblast 1
Burning Soul 2
Master of Ele 3
Imp. Flamestrike 3
Critical Mass 3
Playing W/Fire 3
Blast Wave 1
Fire Power 5
Pyromaniac 3
Combustion 1
Arcane Subtlety 2
Arcane Focus 3
Arcane Conc. 4

Deep Ice (All 46)
Improved FB 5
Ice Shards 5
Frostbite 3
Imp Frost Nova 2
Piercing Ice 3
Cold Snap 1
Arctic Reach 2
Shatter 5
Frost Channel 3
Ice Block 1
Improved COC 3
Ice Floes 2
Ice Barrier 1
Arctic Winds 4
Emp. Frostbolt 5
Elemental 1

Arcane / Frost (18/28)
Arcane Subtlety 2
Arcane Focus 3
Arcane Conc. 5
Magic Absorb 5
Arcane Med. 3
Improved FB 5
Ice Shards 5
Imp Frost Nova 2
Permafrost 2
Piercing Ice 3
Cold Snap 1
Arctic Reach 2
Shatter 5
Frost Channel 3

#4 Dec 26 2007 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
After your respec into Frost, I think that what you did was that you took talents that sounded good in theory, but they ended up just being worthless when the points could've been put to good use else where.

Frost Warding is just really useless. You rarely face mobs that use frost, so it's situational at best.

Now, as far as steering away from a pure build, you *could* do it, but my advice to you is to just pick a school and stay with it. I've done both fire and frost before, and I just love all the bonus' you get with frost vs fire from a leveling stand point.

If you are going for an AoE Frost build, http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZVAMGsfxsVoz try that out. If you're going for something a little more one on one...http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZVAGIodxsVok

Try that out, putting the points into Arctic Winds as you level.

If you do like fire, then just go back to it. There really would be no harm in doing that.

With that second build, you're looking at a minimum of 56% chance to crit on a frozen target, up to 66% if you've stacked Winter's Chill to it's full effect. If you engage at max range, then you should have no problems at all stacking WC (3 Frostbolts, a CoC and Frost Nova). Then you just strafe away and follow up with a Frostbolt and a Fireblast, game, set, match.
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#5 Dec 26 2007 at 9:49 PM Rating: Default
My 2 cents...

If your intentions are to AOE to the Outlands stay pure frost. Drop Frost Warding to pick up improved Frost Nova. This along w/ Permafrost and Improved Blizzard (which you already have) will allow you to AOE w/out ever being touched. See Leatherpatches guide for the technique. Are you a big fan of instances? If not, and again your focus is to AOE to the Outlands I'd drop Winter's Chill. Pick up Shatter for when you have to solo your way to an AOE site. You did good by passing up Frostbite. Now this next one is gear dependent. My mage is my first toon so I didn't have the gold to throw at gear. I didn't buy any through my 50s since the drops/quest rewards in the Outlands are great. With my limited mana pool I found Frost Channeling very important when I was dumping those repeat Blizzards on a pack of mobs. You could pull those points from Artic Winds. Looks like you had some pretty good gear so it's up to you.

Omenv
#6 Dec 27 2007 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
Kirzen wrote:


Deep Arcane / Fire (35/11)
Arcane Subtlety 2
Arcane Focus 3
Arcane Conc. 5
Magic Absorb 5
Arcane Med. 3
Imp. Counter 2
POM 1
Arcane Mind 5
Arcane Pot. 3
Arcane Ins. 3
Spell Power 2
Arcane Power 1
Improved FB 5
Ignite 5
Pyroblast 1



Looks like we have an early winner. Friends managed to coax me back in and I just threw on the build that 'felt' best of the four or five I'd put together.

This thing is scary, I couldn't even imagine how scary until I put everything together, I'll probably do another reader dump so that I can post up the new current stats, but the biggest changes are difficult to see. I never run OOM now (I can slam down between 15 and 20 mobs around my level before having to take a breather as long as I'm picking them off one at a time) I jumped up to about 7200 MP and I'm pulling a 60% regen while casting. My INT shot up to nearly 400 from just barely over 300, and my crit rate took a flying leap from ~6.5 to ~10.5 (without any of the fancy fire based critical talents). When I ride into 60th and get my hands on Mind Mastery, things will get even scarier...

Other than the suddenly bottomless mana pool, I can feel the difference from the lack of fire skills, my attacks don't do 'quite' as much damage as they used to, but when I do land a crit (which is pretty frequent, especially with the +30% crit chance while clearcasting) the monsters really feel it... +30% damage on critical hits makes ignite really come alive, and yet most monsters don't live long enough to feel the ignite.

I also -really- found out how much of a difference Flame Throwing makes, I'm postponing Mind Mastery just to get Flame Throwing...

Still reading up on answers to the post and thinking about things, so I'd love to hear more suggestions, but I think deep arcane's made a new friend.
#7 Dec 28 2007 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like Arcane is working out for ya. Arcane Fire is a strong way to go once you're higher up there and before you get the spell damage that's required to make full fire more dangerous.

As for tweaking your build, it looks right about where it should be for that kind of setup at that level. So I'd stick with it.
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