/rant on
WW coming from both mainhand and offhand now, and SS+WW, are definitely a godsend to warrior dps... if you can use them. i notice that in many 5man heroics and even in kara, spacing is either so poor or so limited that i can't WW without fear of breaking CC. in some cases if i step back a bit and WW, i can get one off without breaking CC, but WW's range is not as easy to gauge for me as tclap's range is. of course, without WW, i'm forced to spam HS in between BT's.
what do you dps warriors out there do in this situation? i've tried bringing this up with my tanks but it seems that nobody wants to listen to the rantings of the lone dps warrior in the guild...
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I'm a warrior, peroid. I know how I want people to tank when I DPS, and vice versa. I tell them accordingly, and I certainly do all those things myself. Much like keeping clear of mobs for Multi-Shot, with hunters.
I don't know how experienced your tanks are, but this is generally something one learns from doing alot of instances, playing alot of different classes, and talking to alot of people. Just nag on them alot, they'll come around sooner or later, whether it's due to your nagging (sooner) or their own experiences (later).
I don't know how experienced your tanks are, but this is generally something one learns from doing alot of instances, playing alot of different classes, and talking to alot of people. Just nag on them alot, they'll come around sooner or later, whether it's due to your nagging (sooner) or their own experiences (later).
When I tank I usually tell my mages to keep CCd mobs away from the pack I'm tanking, mostly because I can get in a TC without having to worry about breaking the CCs. I usually mark accordingly to what I can pull where etc., and it seems to be working quite well up to this point. If it's a single mob, I'm not bothered, and neither should you tbh, as it's very doable to kill him off before any of the CC breaks.
It's up to the tank IMHO, I don't think he should change his style because of that small damage increase, if his style isn't ludricious in some way.
Btw, I have to add that some of my pulls seem strange to people as I don't want CC's to be any near any patrol, but it's working, and noone are dying, even if some people sometimes say "I've never done this tactic before.", I just ignore them.
Like in SV I prefer to pull the packs near the water elementals patrol all the way into the tunnel across the other side of the boss, to prevent unnecessary fear-pulls, but some people just don't accept that, even though it's very doable in both normals and heroic even with no CC. It's all about the tanking style.
It's up to the tank IMHO, I don't think he should change his style because of that small damage increase, if his style isn't ludricious in some way.
Btw, I have to add that some of my pulls seem strange to people as I don't want CC's to be any near any patrol, but it's working, and noone are dying, even if some people sometimes say "I've never done this tactic before.", I just ignore them.
Like in SV I prefer to pull the packs near the water elementals patrol all the way into the tunnel across the other side of the boss, to prevent unnecessary fear-pulls, but some people just don't accept that, even though it's very doable in both normals and heroic even with no CC. It's all about the tanking style.
What I do in situations where I can't use whirlwind is make sure the mob is debuffed. Demo Shout/sunder/hamstring when BT is on cooldown may not seem like the best thing to do but it helps out the group alot more then the maybe 40dps you would get from WW.
This may not totally be the answer that you are looking for, but if it benifits the whole group I don't mind taking the backseat on DPS for some utility. From my experiences, the things you do other then just put up big DPS gets you the invite back for more instances. Intercepting a caster to interrupt a cast or tabbing off to pummel one of those meaner casters (like in heroic bot will make the healer's job alot easier.
Tanking positioning really comes to the flavor of the tank, but in all fairness to the dps it isn't that hard to position most mobs. If you ask for the tank to move the mob 5 feet so he is not in way of sheep isn't very difficult, but since you aren't tanking sometimes you have to deal with what's dealt.
Merry Christmas~~
This may not totally be the answer that you are looking for, but if it benifits the whole group I don't mind taking the backseat on DPS for some utility. From my experiences, the things you do other then just put up big DPS gets you the invite back for more instances. Intercepting a caster to interrupt a cast or tabbing off to pummel one of those meaner casters (like in heroic bot will make the healer's job alot easier.
Tanking positioning really comes to the flavor of the tank, but in all fairness to the dps it isn't that hard to position most mobs. If you ask for the tank to move the mob 5 feet so he is not in way of sheep isn't very difficult, but since you aren't tanking sometimes you have to deal with what's dealt.
Merry Christmas~~
Sukutinda wrote:
What I do in situations where I can't use whirlwind is make sure the mob is debuffed. Demo Shout/sunder/hamstring when BT is on cooldown may not seem like the best thing to do but it helps out the group alot more then the maybe 40dps you would get from WW.
This may not totally be the answer that you are looking for, but if it benifits the whole group I don't mind taking the backseat on DPS for some utility. From my experiences, the things you do other then just put up big DPS gets you the invite back for more instances. Intercepting a caster to interrupt a cast or tabbing off to pummel one of those meaner casters (like in heroic bot will make the healer's job alot easier.
Tanking positioning really comes to the flavor of the tank, but in all fairness to the dps it isn't that hard to position most mobs. If you ask for the tank to move the mob 5 feet so he is not in way of sheep isn't very difficult, but since you aren't tanking sometimes you have to deal with what's dealt.
Merry Christmas~~
This may not totally be the answer that you are looking for, but if it benifits the whole group I don't mind taking the backseat on DPS for some utility. From my experiences, the things you do other then just put up big DPS gets you the invite back for more instances. Intercepting a caster to interrupt a cast or tabbing off to pummel one of those meaner casters (like in heroic bot will make the healer's job alot easier.
Tanking positioning really comes to the flavor of the tank, but in all fairness to the dps it isn't that hard to position most mobs. If you ask for the tank to move the mob 5 feet so he is not in way of sheep isn't very difficult, but since you aren't tanking sometimes you have to deal with what's dealt.
Merry Christmas~~
if i can't keep WW on cd, i will debuff the mob fully with demo shout/sunder/hamstring/maybe tclap. the odd thing is that sometimes i am able to tclap and not break cc, but WW and break cc. maybe i'm just a poor judge of distance.
i don't think the dps from WW is at all trivial, especially when used against the maximum four targets. my WW dps comes out to maybe 60 dps on a single mob, assuming that on the low end of the damage scale and no crits (assuming 9% hit, so no misses. assuming no dodges, parries or blocks) i will get 400 damage from MH hits and 200 from OH hits, 400+200 = 600 damage * 6 untalented WW cycles per minute / 60 seconds = 60 dps. on a max four targets, that's 2400 damage per WW and 240 dps. if my math is correct and i'm not totally off my rocker, that's very significant. also, unlike a hunter's multishot/volley or a mage's AE/blizzard, our WW is part of our bread and butter dps rotation. additionally, i'm the only dps warrior in the guild, and some of my supporters/advocates are looking for big numbers to prove that warriors can also dps well in 5mans and raids. so, this is kind of a big deal for me...
Far as DPS is concerned by my standards and maybe I'm wierd, but I dont measure most trash fight DPS. That's neither here nor there though. If you can't get away with a WW but can squeeze in a cleave that would help out your DPS a fair chunk or save your trinkets for the tight situations to keep your DPS high.
Another possibility if you have a serious overload on Rage,pummel/hamstring and hope for a crit and fresh flurry charges. I am pretty against saving 100 rage for executes but if you wanna roll the dice and go for a 6k crit have at it. DW fury warriors get kinda shafted by having no secondary single target instants- don't know what else to say :(
GL and happy holidays(and log out in your fury gear im curious lol)
Another possibility if you have a serious overload on Rage,pummel/hamstring and hope for a crit and fresh flurry charges. I am pretty against saving 100 rage for executes but if you wanna roll the dice and go for a 6k crit have at it. DW fury warriors get kinda shafted by having no secondary single target instants- don't know what else to say :(
GL and happy holidays(and log out in your fury gear im curious lol)
As others have said, just talk with your tank or CCers and ask them to work to get mobs CCed away from the main pack.
Personally when I tank I'll drag the un-CCed mobs away from the CCed one so I can thunderclap. And when I'm on my mage I'll often drag mobs away to get them CCed where I want them (sometimes frostnovaing them to get the placement right; or if it's something that'll one-shot me :D )
Personally when I tank I'll drag the un-CCed mobs away from the CCed one so I can thunderclap. And when I'm on my mage I'll often drag mobs away to get them CCed where I want them (sometimes frostnovaing them to get the placement right; or if it's something that'll one-shot me :D )
Hmmm...no ww can be a bummer, but there are other ways around it. Use HS more when you can't WW. I'm not too sure how geared you are, but 400 mh and 200 oh ww's are kind of subpar. I normally just say Oops, or oh f*ck, my bad. But if you think about it, what is the job of the CC? To keep mobs CC'd. I know the cc doesn't look at this way, but if/when your guild gets to TK or SSC there will be mobs that require non-stop sheeping...even when being tanked because they do a .5 second AOE cast that is hard to interrupt.
I know thats probably not what you were looking for <---so cliche. Well, all I can tell you is to ask the tank or CC to pull away or CC sooner. But again, ww is a great ability, and for that, I use two 2.6 speed weapons (they have higher top end damage for WW numbers). I think your mistaken if your ww only does 60dps on a single target..because if thats the case, you need to reroll.
I often times hit 1k mh, and 800 on OH. Other times I break even at around 400/400. Even with 400/200 thats definitely not 60 dps. lol Just Heroic Strike more to fill the void. You'll learn that ur dps will significantly go down when you can't WW, but it's not the end of the world. Just find ways to work around it...
I know thats probably not what you were looking for <---so cliche. Well, all I can tell you is to ask the tank or CC to pull away or CC sooner. But again, ww is a great ability, and for that, I use two 2.6 speed weapons (they have higher top end damage for WW numbers). I think your mistaken if your ww only does 60dps on a single target..because if thats the case, you need to reroll.
I often times hit 1k mh, and 800 on OH. Other times I break even at around 400/400. Even with 400/200 thats definitely not 60 dps. lol Just Heroic Strike more to fill the void. You'll learn that ur dps will significantly go down when you can't WW, but it's not the end of the world. Just find ways to work around it...
PigeonMan wrote:
Hmmm...no ww can be a bummer, but there are other ways around it. Use HS more when you can't WW. I'm not too sure how geared you are, but 400 mh and 200 oh ww's are kind of subpar. I normally just say Oops, or oh f*ck, my bad. But if you think about it, what is the job of the CC? To keep mobs CC'd. I know the cc doesn't look at this way, but if/when your guild gets to TK or SSC there will be mobs that require non-stop sheeping...even when being tanked because they do a .5 second AOE cast that is hard to interrupt.
I know thats probably not what you were looking for <---so cliche. Well, all I can tell you is to ask the tank or CC to pull away or CC sooner. But again, ww is a great ability, and for that, I use two 2.6 speed weapons (they have higher top end damage for WW numbers). I think your mistaken if your ww only does 60dps on a single target..because if thats the case, you need to reroll.
I often times hit 1k mh, and 800 on OH. Other times I break even at around 400/400. Even with 400/200 thats definitely not 60 dps. lol Just Heroic Strike more to fill the void. You'll learn that ur dps will significantly go down when you can't WW, but it's not the end of the world. Just find ways to work around it...
I know thats probably not what you were looking for <---so cliche. Well, all I can tell you is to ask the tank or CC to pull away or CC sooner. But again, ww is a great ability, and for that, I use two 2.6 speed weapons (they have higher top end damage for WW numbers). I think your mistaken if your ww only does 60dps on a single target..because if thats the case, you need to reroll.
I often times hit 1k mh, and 800 on OH. Other times I break even at around 400/400. Even with 400/200 thats definitely not 60 dps. lol Just Heroic Strike more to fill the void. You'll learn that ur dps will significantly go down when you can't WW, but it's not the end of the world. Just find ways to work around it...
I believe what he meant by 60 dps is not, for instance, 60 damage on the target.
I did a regular Shattered Halls run with a warrior tank. I was unable to cleave and whirlwind because he was not able to hold aggro through it. I had to hold back constantly. I was pushing about 350 dps.
I did a heroic Mech run with a paladin tank. I did not have to hold back at all. The only time I pulled aggro was on the last pull when I charged, hit sweeping strikes, whirlwind, cleave, and so on. I was pushing over 500 dps.
This doesn't mean that I do 500 damage each attack, it means that every second I am performing approximately 500 damage.
Kind of an aside, that Heroic Mech run had a feral druid, a pally tank, and a pally healer. Might + Kings + GotW + Leader of the Pack + Battle Shout ftw! I had over 35% crit chance and well over 2k attack power. It was so sweet. If only the other dps had been an enhance shammy laying down some Windfury Totems... then it'd be a wet dream.
I said 400/200 were on the low end. I was giving conservative estimates. And yes, I spam hs/cleave as rage and spacing permits.
To the above posters, at some point in my post I was being rather facetious (joking). I know what DPS is vs DMG. I know you might be using conservative numbers, but I was hoping to point out that your conservatism only makes you look subpar. I remember the days when I was DPS in 5 mans with those kind of numbers...oh wait..no I don't. =) I was a tank for the longest time getting the gear to DPS.
Just the other night I had a warrior want to run Arc with me so I let him come. He was arms, and boy did he not do too hot. I have mostly epic tanking gear minus my chest piece, cloak and bracers. Either way he was using Crystal Forged Waraxe and he did 70k dmg more than me, but I'm willing to bet my DPS was more than his with all the 1k-1.3k shield slams. lol
Please don't take my former post tooo seriously, it was more or less me being nice. =)
Just the other night I had a warrior want to run Arc with me so I let him come. He was arms, and boy did he not do too hot. I have mostly epic tanking gear minus my chest piece, cloak and bracers. Either way he was using Crystal Forged Waraxe and he did 70k dmg more than me, but I'm willing to bet my DPS was more than his with all the 1k-1.3k shield slams. lol
Please don't take my former post tooo seriously, it was more or less me being nice. =)
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