All,
I need a bit of advice.
My wife, our son and myself have decided to start fresh characters and to level them while always grouping with the 3 of us. Way back when, I used to group with my wife (she played a Mage and I played a Warrior) and we found that the combination of a strong DPS class and a tanking class worked pretty well for us, so I leveled mostly with a Protection Warrior.
This time around, we are adding a healing class to that mix, and I wanted a change from being a Warrior, so I decided to go for a Paladin. Neither my wife or my son wanted the 'responsability' of being a tank, and since I really like tanking, I decided to go for a protection Paladin. My wife is playing a Priest and my son is a Mage.
Regarding this setup, I have a few questions.
1) Will our kill-XP be harmed a lot by always grouping ? After 1 evening of playing, we're now all level 10 and we've exhausted all quests in Dun Morogh. Should we incorporate some grinding sessions to make up for the loss of kills ?
2) Are there other (better) group compositions than the one we've chosen ? It seems to me we have just about everything we'll ever need. Int and Sta buffs from Mage and Priest, Blessings from Paladin, Food and Drink from Mage, Sheep, Mind Control, Shackle are all accounted for and I feel this is just about the best composition we could go for, but maybe I've missed something :-)
As to the Paladin (which is the main reason I'm posting this in this class forum), I've decided to go the tanking way from the start and let the Mage (and the Priest to a certain extent) take care of the damage department.
A couple more questions, related to the Paladin part.
3) Is my decision to go tanking from the start a viable one in this composition ? Or should we just focus on killing as much stuff independently of eachother and should I try to do my part of the damage ?
4) For the moment (again, only level 10 so far, so I realise we need to level a bit before a lot of good options become available), I evidently haven't seen the awesomeness of Pally-AOE tanking as most of my threat comes from hitting mobs, Seal of Righteousness and Judging it. So, gathering up a lot of mobs and tanking them while the Mage kills them and the Priest heals me is not really a viable option just yet. As of which level on will AOE tanking become a viable option ?
5) This is the talent progression I'm currently thinking of taking and I wouldn't mind a few ideas on whether or not this is a good path or not.
* 10-14 : Redoubt x 5 ==> 5/5
* 15-17 : Precision x 3 ==> 3/3
* 18-19 : Toughness x 2 ==> 2/5
* 20 : Blessing of Kings x 1 ==> 1/1
* 21-23 : Improved Righteous Fury x 3 ==> 3/3
* 24-26 : Shield Specialisation x 3 ==> 3/3
* 27-29 : Toughness x 3 ==> 5/5
* 30 : Blessing of Sanctuary x 1 ==> 1/1
* 31-34 : Reckoning x 4 ==> 4/5
* 35-39 : One Hand Specialisation x 5 ==> 5/5
* 40 : Holy Shield x 1 ==> 1/1
* 41-42 : Improved Holy Shield x 2 ==> 2/2
* 43 : Reckoning x 1 ==> 5/5
* 44 : Ardent Defender x 1 ==> 1/5
* 45-49 : Combat Expertise x 5 ==> 5/5
* 50 : Avenger's Shield x 1 ==> 1/1
After that, I plan to fill out Ardent Defender to 5/5 and Anticipation to 5/5 (as I assume getting enough Defense to be uncrittable is as important to a Paladin tank as it is to a Warrior tank). This will leave me with 11 more talent points by the time I get to 70. I'm not too fussed about those just yet, but any pointers on what other talents to take from Holy, Retri or Prot trees would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for reading through this wall of text and for the answers you can give me.
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- Another grouping post ... Pally, Mage, Priest
Another grouping post ... Pally, Mage, PriestFollow
pally+mage+priest = aoe kill everything. you will blow through areas like STV in a couple hours.
Well, that is a nice group for sure. And defintly AOE worthy. The pally will shine around 35 ish and upwards. That inclused both tanking and doing some 'aoe' damage, however before that you can do decently in the multiple mob tanking department.
I would suggest this progression:
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIL (Get imp RF as quick as possible, it is key to building threat and holding agro, not to mention reducing damage taken)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zh (Taking Bless. Of Sanc, it will improve your aoe strengths, do damage and increase threat, reduce damage taken. Filling up anticipation and taking 3/5 reckoning (perhaps to be filled out at a later stage)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zhgo (one handed for increase damage while carrying a 1h, that is ALL damage, not just hits, but also spelldamage done, of course pick Holy Shield as soon as possible and impr Holy Shield)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zGgotVfx00f (Filling up the tree and other trees as you see fit. This is but one example and far from the best possible i'm sure)
Gameplay would be you riding/running in and agroing as many mobs as you can handle, pull all aoe tricks you have and have the mage and priest help out in that aoe department or have the priest heal you.. you should be fine and if you keep your gear up you will never lose agro to the mage.
I would suggest this progression:
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIL (Get imp RF as quick as possible, it is key to building threat and holding agro, not to mention reducing damage taken)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zh (Taking Bless. Of Sanc, it will improve your aoe strengths, do damage and increase threat, reduce damage taken. Filling up anticipation and taking 3/5 reckoning (perhaps to be filled out at a later stage)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zhgo (one handed for increase damage while carrying a 1h, that is ALL damage, not just hits, but also spelldamage done, of course pick Holy Shield as soon as possible and impr Holy Shield)
- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zGgotVfx00f (Filling up the tree and other trees as you see fit. This is but one example and far from the best possible i'm sure)
Gameplay would be you riding/running in and agroing as many mobs as you can handle, pull all aoe tricks you have and have the mage and priest help out in that aoe department or have the priest heal you.. you should be fine and if you keep your gear up you will never lose agro to the mage.
Imp. Righteous Fury is important for a couple of reasons, not only does it let you keep aggro like glue, it reduces all damage taken by 6%. This is why you should keep Righteous Fury up while soloing all the time as well (after getting the talents for it).
AoE tanking starts to get effective in the high 20s, at 30-35 it really takes off. At 40, it reaches a whole new level of effectiveness and begins scaling from there.
The idea is.. You do all kinds of incidental damage, holy types are best. Early on, you'll get this incidental damage entirely from Aura of Retribution and a Shield Spike (and yes, a shield spike is extremely useful). You'll be supplementing it with Seal of Righteousness (and it's Judgement) as well as Consecration where crowd control allows it. At 30, Blessing of Sanctuary brings your incidental damage up again, but only on blocks. Since BoSanc and your Shield Spike will only proc on blocks you should have maxed out Redoubt by this point so that you block more often. If you're running groups with only 1 Pally, you might find that BoSanc isn't worth it yet. -10 Damage (before modifiers) and a little bit of holy damage (read: threat) per block might not be worth it when you're blocking 6% of the time, with a rare-proc talent bringing you up to 36% of the time. Since you don't have Seal of Wisdom yet (and won't for a while) you might want to keep Blessing of Wisdom up.
This really takes off with 2 abilities that you get *around* 40. Seal of Wisdom and Holy Shield (and it's improvements). Seal of Wisdom allows you to use Blessing of Sanctuary more effectively without running out of mana. Also, if you keep Holy Shield up, you'll have an "okay" block-rate all the time, and a pretty decent one when Redoubt procs. When you block: Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary, and your Shield Spike will all cause damage. In addition, Retribution Aura and any other on-hit effects you have (likely Thorns if the three of you roll with a druid for 5mans, etc) will also hit.
Other things that really help you.. Getting lots of healing. Sounds weird, I know. Lower-level Paladins gain 8% of the ammount of healing that they take in mana. If healed for 1000, you gain 80 mana back. This increases to 10% later on. This means that you can most effectively keep threat if your gear is good enough for the encounter, but not way beyond it as you'll be taking more damage and getting more healing. Honesly, I've never noticed this as a significant addition until about 50 where it starts becoming a major source of mana. Also, YOU regenerate this mana yourself, the threat for the mana is not applied to your healer, but rather you. In effect, this means that if you are tanking the mob, healers will generate less "relative threat" by healing paladins as they would by healing other classes. This is because the paladin generates mana and threat every time they are healed. If your wife's priest is going Shadow, she'll get an ability that will restore your mana based on the damage that she does. This is awesome for the tanking Paladin. Any source of mana regeneration will allow you to build more AoE threat.
As a previous warrior tank, I'd bet you know all about this next piece of advice already, but if not I'll put up a little forward to it. This is the single thing that I find myself advising Paladin tanks the most (and Warrior tanks for that matter). When you grab all of your pulls, be certain to walk backwards and position yourself in such a way that they are all infront of you. You can't block an attack that comes from behind you. Not only does this mean you'll be taking more damage if you just "run in and spam consecrate" but you'll be doing less as well (read: generating less threat). Since a HUGE ammount of your threat is going to come from Holy Shield, BoSanc, and a Shield Spike (okay.. notably less but it makes a BIG difference at lower levels) and since none of those proc their damage return unless you BLOCK an attack, you'll look (and rightfully so) like an ***-hat if you dont keep the mobs infront of you. If you have a corner that you can back yourself into, great, if not.. keep the pulls a size where they all fit infront.
AoE tanking starts to get effective in the high 20s, at 30-35 it really takes off. At 40, it reaches a whole new level of effectiveness and begins scaling from there.
The idea is.. You do all kinds of incidental damage, holy types are best. Early on, you'll get this incidental damage entirely from Aura of Retribution and a Shield Spike (and yes, a shield spike is extremely useful). You'll be supplementing it with Seal of Righteousness (and it's Judgement) as well as Consecration where crowd control allows it. At 30, Blessing of Sanctuary brings your incidental damage up again, but only on blocks. Since BoSanc and your Shield Spike will only proc on blocks you should have maxed out Redoubt by this point so that you block more often. If you're running groups with only 1 Pally, you might find that BoSanc isn't worth it yet. -10 Damage (before modifiers) and a little bit of holy damage (read: threat) per block might not be worth it when you're blocking 6% of the time, with a rare-proc talent bringing you up to 36% of the time. Since you don't have Seal of Wisdom yet (and won't for a while) you might want to keep Blessing of Wisdom up.
This really takes off with 2 abilities that you get *around* 40. Seal of Wisdom and Holy Shield (and it's improvements). Seal of Wisdom allows you to use Blessing of Sanctuary more effectively without running out of mana. Also, if you keep Holy Shield up, you'll have an "okay" block-rate all the time, and a pretty decent one when Redoubt procs. When you block: Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary, and your Shield Spike will all cause damage. In addition, Retribution Aura and any other on-hit effects you have (likely Thorns if the three of you roll with a druid for 5mans, etc) will also hit.
Other things that really help you.. Getting lots of healing. Sounds weird, I know. Lower-level Paladins gain 8% of the ammount of healing that they take in mana. If healed for 1000, you gain 80 mana back. This increases to 10% later on. This means that you can most effectively keep threat if your gear is good enough for the encounter, but not way beyond it as you'll be taking more damage and getting more healing. Honesly, I've never noticed this as a significant addition until about 50 where it starts becoming a major source of mana. Also, YOU regenerate this mana yourself, the threat for the mana is not applied to your healer, but rather you. In effect, this means that if you are tanking the mob, healers will generate less "relative threat" by healing paladins as they would by healing other classes. This is because the paladin generates mana and threat every time they are healed. If your wife's priest is going Shadow, she'll get an ability that will restore your mana based on the damage that she does. This is awesome for the tanking Paladin. Any source of mana regeneration will allow you to build more AoE threat.
As a previous warrior tank, I'd bet you know all about this next piece of advice already, but if not I'll put up a little forward to it. This is the single thing that I find myself advising Paladin tanks the most (and Warrior tanks for that matter). When you grab all of your pulls, be certain to walk backwards and position yourself in such a way that they are all infront of you. You can't block an attack that comes from behind you. Not only does this mean you'll be taking more damage if you just "run in and spam consecrate" but you'll be doing less as well (read: generating less threat). Since a HUGE ammount of your threat is going to come from Holy Shield, BoSanc, and a Shield Spike (okay.. notably less but it makes a BIG difference at lower levels) and since none of those proc their damage return unless you BLOCK an attack, you'll look (and rightfully so) like an ***-hat if you dont keep the mobs infront of you. If you have a corner that you can back yourself into, great, if not.. keep the pulls a size where they all fit infront.
First, WOOT! I wish I could get something like what you have going with my family!
Second, welcome to the Pally family.
Prot pallys are a blast to play, and I found much more rewarding than warriors.
1. I do believe that your xp will be less as you always group. But as a group I believe that you would be able to do the harder quests so much easier (an orange quest or red quest that will grant you great xp) countering the lack from your kill xp. And besides, as a family you all are having fun right? I would incorporate grinding sessions to up your professions of each character. Instead of questing one night make it a prof night and max that stuff out fast. It should also help make up for some exp as you of course kill along the way. But again, as long as you’re having fun, right?!
2. If you’re not a player from the start of this game (v1.0) then just a brief history and another reason I love your choices in your group.
In the beginning there was what I call the great trio. Tank, Dps, Heals. I still think that most 5 man groups NEED this, and in the evolution of the game this theme is still here, but smothered under all those who wanted to play a priest and still dps, or a pally and wanted to dps. So in the ever call of the customer Blizzard has slowly adjusted each class to have some aspect of each of the great trio in it instead of fine tuning the prime talents of each class.
As a pally tank the advice you have gotten as of yet is right. Up until lvl 35 you really won't see your roll shine. A holy priest will for sure keep you alive (especially as a 3 man group) and may want to look into going Holy/Dis for more utility. As a mage you have crowd control. Not that I know much about mages (having never played one) but my friend lvld a fire mage with my pally. The dps out of his mage was insane, direct and aoe damage. I believe that you have the makings of greatness inside your group.
3. Patience. In honest none of the classes will really shine till around lvl 35-40. Just keep pounding.
4. Lvl 22. When you can max out Improved Righteous Fury in combo with your Consecration, and Ret Aura. You will have to remind your team to give you the first 8 sec of your Consecration for you to gain and hold agro, but from there you should shine in mulit mob pulls and holding their agro. Gear will help too. + spell damage will ease things over. If you have an enchanter, Wizard Oil on your wep (I don't remember the lvl req) My friend (the fire mage http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Akama&n=Krowdkontrol) had a 3 sec cast aoe spell, so when he saw the consecration go down he would count to 5 and start casting. You guys will get a pattern down I'm sure.
5. I will only say up to 22.
10-14 : Redoubt x 5 ==> 5/5
15-19 : Toughness
20-22 : Imp RF
I believe that at this point you will become the aoe tank for your group that you are looking for.
Hope you and your family have a blast!!!
Second, welcome to the Pally family.
Prot pallys are a blast to play, and I found much more rewarding than warriors.
1. I do believe that your xp will be less as you always group. But as a group I believe that you would be able to do the harder quests so much easier (an orange quest or red quest that will grant you great xp) countering the lack from your kill xp. And besides, as a family you all are having fun right? I would incorporate grinding sessions to up your professions of each character. Instead of questing one night make it a prof night and max that stuff out fast. It should also help make up for some exp as you of course kill along the way. But again, as long as you’re having fun, right?!
2. If you’re not a player from the start of this game (v1.0) then just a brief history and another reason I love your choices in your group.
In the beginning there was what I call the great trio. Tank, Dps, Heals. I still think that most 5 man groups NEED this, and in the evolution of the game this theme is still here, but smothered under all those who wanted to play a priest and still dps, or a pally and wanted to dps. So in the ever call of the customer Blizzard has slowly adjusted each class to have some aspect of each of the great trio in it instead of fine tuning the prime talents of each class.
As a pally tank the advice you have gotten as of yet is right. Up until lvl 35 you really won't see your roll shine. A holy priest will for sure keep you alive (especially as a 3 man group) and may want to look into going Holy/Dis for more utility. As a mage you have crowd control. Not that I know much about mages (having never played one) but my friend lvld a fire mage with my pally. The dps out of his mage was insane, direct and aoe damage. I believe that you have the makings of greatness inside your group.
3. Patience. In honest none of the classes will really shine till around lvl 35-40. Just keep pounding.
4. Lvl 22. When you can max out Improved Righteous Fury in combo with your Consecration, and Ret Aura. You will have to remind your team to give you the first 8 sec of your Consecration for you to gain and hold agro, but from there you should shine in mulit mob pulls and holding their agro. Gear will help too. + spell damage will ease things over. If you have an enchanter, Wizard Oil on your wep (I don't remember the lvl req) My friend (the fire mage http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Akama&n=Krowdkontrol) had a 3 sec cast aoe spell, so when he saw the consecration go down he would count to 5 and start casting. You guys will get a pattern down I'm sure.
5. I will only say up to 22.
10-14 : Redoubt x 5 ==> 5/5
15-19 : Toughness
20-22 : Imp RF
I believe that at this point you will become the aoe tank for your group that you are looking for.
Hope you and your family have a blast!!!
22 posts
Thank you all very much for your answers and feedback.
It is indeed all about having fun (has been ever since I started playing this great game at release) and that we are doing ;-)
I'll take the advice to heart.
It is indeed all about having fun (has been ever since I started playing this great game at release) and that we are doing ;-)
I'll take the advice to heart.
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