Hey everyone!
I'd like to start out this lengthy post by thanking all the boards for all the knowledge and enetertainment you have given me over the last few years. Nothing like checking the boards on a break @ work :)
Today I need some help though...
I have read endless posts that all agree that 10-48-3 is the definitive raid spec (until you get 2 pieces of t5, for AB/AM spam). In the 6 months or so that I have been 70 I have been frost; frost for pvp and frost for raiding.
I am always in the top of whatever raid I am in. (Not saying always #1, but always in contention when in caster dps heavy fights.)
I am sure everyone will want to see how I am geared, so is here my armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Sephir
For the people that don't feel like clicking and looking OR if I am in pvp gear, here are my stats @ raid time.
Frost DMG: 1162
Crit: 23.08
Spell Hit: 158 (I know, I have extra ><)
High Normal Fight Crit: 5653
Interestingly enough, 23.08 seems quite low, but when winters chill is stacked and you factor in empowered frostbolt, my working raid crit chance is 38.08%.
On fights where you have to go "all out" *beginning of Solarion, for example* I have cracked into 1500 dps range for while having my Ele out. Generally, on mage dps heavy fights the only one who really out dps's me is my class leader, who specs 40-0-21 to take advantage of my 18-0-43, and even then its not like he totally blows me out of the water.
Now that you guys have all of the facts, the reason I even made this post in the first place is to ask this question:
10-48-3 is the definitive pre T5 raid spec. Why? Prove it.
Can the dps increase from Molten Fury and the ticking of fireball/ignite procs really annihilate the constant FB/WB spam that I put out?
I am challenging the theorycrafters out there to plug in comprabale spell damage and prove to me that fire is better then ice.
Thanks in advance everyone. Your time is greatly appreciated.
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Sephro wrote:
Now that you guys have all of the facts, the reason I even made this post in the first place is to ask this question:
10-48-3 is the definitive pre T5 raid spec. Why? Prove it.
10-48-3 is the definitive pre T5 raid spec. Why? Prove it.
It has already been proven. The math is already there(I'm sure you can find it easily on the Elitist Jerks forums).
Icy Veins will bring frost up close, but as of now, a properly geared and played 10/48/3 will annihilate a frosty.
I plugged you into Lhivera's Theorycraft Calculator for the fun of it(adjusted Fire Damage equal to Frost damage). The calculator already has Icy Veins averaged, so your theoretical numbers will be lower.
10/47/3
Fireball x8 / Scorch x1 w/MF avg'd
DPS 1,424.90
Fireball x8 / Scorch x1
DPS 1,370.09
10/0/49 +2
Frostbolt w/Waterbolt + IV Avg'd
1,395.69
Frostbolt
1,218.90
With Icy Veins not in there, you'll find your DPS to be significantly lower than a fire mage.
Unfortunately, there is no option that factors in the Waterbolts over the duration of a fight while not counting Icy Veins. So I included the rotations that lack the elemental and Molten Fury for comparison.
Also, this doesn't include the liberal usage of flame caps that one can include in a fire rotation for maximum DPS.
Edited, Dec 22nd 2007 3:08am by Poldaran
10/47/3
Fireball x8 / Scorch x1 w/MF avg'd
DPS 1,424.90
Fireball x8 / Scorch x1
DPS 1,370.09
10/0/49 +2
Frostbolt w/Waterbolt + IV Avg'd
1,395.69
Frostbolt
1,218.90
With Icy Veins not in there, you'll find your DPS to be significantly lower than a fire mage.
Unfortunately, there is no option that factors in the Waterbolts over the duration of a fight while not counting Icy Veins. So I included the rotations that lack the elemental and Molten Fury for comparison.
Also, this doesn't include the liberal usage of flame caps that one can include in a fire rotation for maximum DPS.
Edited, Dec 22nd 2007 3:08am by Poldaran
I have been using the theorycrafting site that Pold listed and have actually found that the 2-piece t5 after the nerfs to the MSD gem, etc is below 10/48/3 at least with my gear.
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
Anobix wrote:
I have been using the theorycrafting site that Pold listed and have actually found that the 2-piece t5 after the nerfs to the MSD gem, etc is below 10/48/3 at least with my gear.
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
It can be, but I'm still awaiting field testing of the new mana gems before I start seriously considering using such a build. I've heard that they work out to be on par with the old gems + clearcasting, but I'm still skeptical.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Anobix wrote:
I have been using the theorycrafting site that Pold listed and have actually found that the 2-piece t5 after the nerfs to the MSD gem, etc is below 10/48/3 at least with my gear.
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
which you can see here (I do have shoulders + gloves btw)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Anobix
It is also important to remember that I believe that using fire spells with icy veins is still a possibility too, which may in turn come out ahead of frost (I haven't checked that theorycrafting yet though).
It can be, but I'm still awaiting field testing of the new mana gems before I start seriously considering using such a build. I've heard that they work out to be on par with the old gems + clearcasting, but I'm still skeptical.
I will still stay 10/48/3, unless there is some unbelievable breakthrough that no one else knew about. I am just damn excited for those new mana gems.
Anobix wrote:
I will still stay 10/48/3, unless there is some unbelievable breakthrough that no one else knew about. I am just damn excited for those new mana gems.
As I understand it, as you get higher and higher in gear level overall, so does the shadow priest that feeds you mana. So even gems can become a moot point. I understand that many mages will use destruction pots instead of mana pots at that level and flame caps instead of mana gems. So I could see the possibility of using a non-Arcane Meditation build at that point.
However, for those mid way into T5 instances, I don't foresee Icy Veins Deep Fire builds being used as much.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Anobix wrote:
I will still stay 10/48/3, unless there is some unbelievable breakthrough that no one else knew about. I am just damn excited for those new mana gems.
As I understand it, as you get higher and higher in gear level overall, so does the shadow priest that feeds you mana. So even gems can become a moot point. I understand that many mages will use destruction pots instead of mana pots at that level and flame caps instead of mana gems. So I could see the possibility of using a non-Arcane Meditation build at that point.
However, for those mid way into T5 instances, I don't foresee Icy Veins Deep Fire builds being used as much.
very interesting, i just wish that more than 1 spriest would show up to our raids.
Anobix wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Anobix wrote:
I will still stay 10/48/3, unless there is some unbelievable breakthrough that no one else knew about. I am just damn excited for those new mana gems.
As I understand it, as you get higher and higher in gear level overall, so does the shadow priest that feeds you mana. So even gems can become a moot point. I understand that many mages will use destruction pots instead of mana pots at that level and flame caps instead of mana gems. So I could see the possibility of using a non-Arcane Meditation build at that point.
However, for those mid way into T5 instances, I don't foresee Icy Veins Deep Fire builds being used as much.
very interesting, i just wish that more than 1 spriest would show up to our raids.
Indeed. They're awesome to have. We usually have 2-3, so I can almost always get one.
One? Pfft, we stack 2 Spriests and 3 mages into our raid crews. All in the same group.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
Pff.. I'm the only really actively raiding sPriest in my guild ._." rofl
Anyways. Blizzard doesn't want 1 tree to dominate both PvE and PvP, so having frost 100% equal to fire will most likely not happen, Fire will always have a little edge.
Anyways. Blizzard doesn't want 1 tree to dominate both PvE and PvP, so having frost 100% equal to fire will most likely not happen, Fire will always have a little edge.
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
One? Pfft, we stack 2 Spriests and 3 mages into our raid crews. All in the same group.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
I am sometimes lucky enough to have that, although most of the time it is the RL (warlock), our Mage CO (he does do better dps than me, so I can kinda see why...), a moonkin, and a elemental shaman. I normally just get a shaman in my group if I'm not in that one.
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
One? Pfft, we stack 2 Spriests and 3 mages into our raid crews. All in the same group.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
I have zero mana issues, ever. It's awesome.
You ever try AB spam with that setup?
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