My wife and I haved decided to make the swap over to WoW from EQ where she played a druid and I played a pally for years and years. She has decided on a warlock and I usually play a tank class, but I hated the fact that in EQ (and in WoW as my reading shows) pallys are a great diverse class but are really second rate tanks at endgame. Is the pally/lock combo going to be a much better pairing than the war/lock pair? I want to be a usefull endgame class, but having fun with my wife and being able to be an effective pair is more important than being the goto guy endgame. What do ya think?
Icetoff Stormblade
70 Pally of Cazic Thule..........baby pally of WoW.
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If you want to go tanking into end-game then you'll have a better chance of getting into raids as a warrior. I've never seen a raid that EVER took more than 1 protection paladin, and the typical raid takes 2-3 (sometimes 4) warriors. Which would you rather have 1/25 chance of getting in a raid or a 3/25 chance. However if you don't plan on raiding at all, the trolls of this forum seem to think that paladins are the best tank for pure 5-mans.
Outside of tanking, if you're forced to respec to fill another role, as a paladin you will never be asked to spec ret and dps in a raid. It just won't happen. (You might get to if YOU ask, but they will never ask you). If they make a paladin respec to be more useful to a raid 99% of the time you'll be asked to spec holy and be a heal bot. If you roll paladin you have to accept that possibility. If you're a warrior, if they ask you to spec out of prot, then fine you become a dps warrior.
Outside of tanking, if you're forced to respec to fill another role, as a paladin you will never be asked to spec ret and dps in a raid. It just won't happen. (You might get to if YOU ask, but they will never ask you). If they make a paladin respec to be more useful to a raid 99% of the time you'll be asked to spec holy and be a heal bot. If you roll paladin you have to accept that possibility. If you're a warrior, if they ask you to spec out of prot, then fine you become a dps warrior.
Please keep in mind that Dilbrt thinks that pallys are healbots and nothing more, and to take all of comments of prot pally supporters being "trolls" with a VERY big grain of salt.
Dilbrt, stop acting like you're an unbiased observer. The "troll" title applies just as much to you as the people you're applying it to.
Dilbrt, stop acting like you're an unbiased observer. The "troll" title applies just as much to you as the people you're applying it to.
When over 80% of the paladins in the game of warcraft are healadins, don't you think that says something? You may not like what I say, but in Burning Crusade, that's how the paladin class has been designed for. Heck even nearly all of the paladin only trinkets are really geared more towards holy than prot. Pre-BC was all about the retadin (especially tier 2 and 2.5, which is what most raiders had) and BC is all about the heal bot.
I'd bet you 1000g that if you asked 10 random raiding guilds of any stage of raiding (from BT to Gruul) you'd find that on average they would never take more than a single protection paladin, and rarely ever had less than 2 holy paladins. I'd also bet that you'd have an easier time finding a guild that raided with a retadin before they raided with two prot pallies.
I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Blizzard made the BC paladin to heal, plain and simple. They may be making small changes here and there to make it slightly more enticing for people to spec prot or even ret, but still a heavy majority are still heal bots.
Tired of me talking about raiding? Well lets talk about arena then. How useful is arena for a prot paladin? Sit there and hope a rogue melees you while you throw weak heals on people? Or maybe ret. Ask the top arena teams and when they see a ret paladin they go "Alright! Free arena points!" The only spec for the hardcore pvp paladins that is truely viable is... Holy!
Yes I'm biased, but that's because I'm experienced with paladin. I pay attention to the ebb and flow of the game. Until some major changes are made to the paladin class (which isn't likely any time soon) paladins are primarily heal bots for anything useful. If you're happy getting crappy blues from 5-mans, more power to you. The only way to move beyond that is either be one of the best tanks out there (and earn that *1* raid spot), or become a heal bot. If you don't like that, complain to Blizzard, not me.
I'd bet you 1000g that if you asked 10 random raiding guilds of any stage of raiding (from BT to Gruul) you'd find that on average they would never take more than a single protection paladin, and rarely ever had less than 2 holy paladins. I'd also bet that you'd have an easier time finding a guild that raided with a retadin before they raided with two prot pallies.
I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Blizzard made the BC paladin to heal, plain and simple. They may be making small changes here and there to make it slightly more enticing for people to spec prot or even ret, but still a heavy majority are still heal bots.
Tired of me talking about raiding? Well lets talk about arena then. How useful is arena for a prot paladin? Sit there and hope a rogue melees you while you throw weak heals on people? Or maybe ret. Ask the top arena teams and when they see a ret paladin they go "Alright! Free arena points!" The only spec for the hardcore pvp paladins that is truely viable is... Holy!
Yes I'm biased, but that's because I'm experienced with paladin. I pay attention to the ebb and flow of the game. Until some major changes are made to the paladin class (which isn't likely any time soon) paladins are primarily heal bots for anything useful. If you're happy getting crappy blues from 5-mans, more power to you. The only way to move beyond that is either be one of the best tanks out there (and earn that *1* raid spot), or become a heal bot. If you don't like that, complain to Blizzard, not me.
Dilbrt wrote:
I've never seen a raid that EVER took more than 1 protection paladin, and the typical raid takes 2-3 (sometimes 4) warriors.
But the fact remains, they still take Prot Paladins :P Our usefulness can not be ignored.
Sure, as a Warrior you're much more likely to be used as a tank in end-game, though that fact alone makes being a Prot Paladin worth it for the sheer satisfaction that you are doing something many don't believe you can (or in this case wish you couldn't). Personally I find Paladins much more fun. Besides you'd be able to solo/duo (with your wife) more group quests as a paladin, you can fill a healer or tank role using a Paladin (both of which are hard to come by at times), you can farm much easier as a Paladin, etc..
But, when it comes right down to it, if the only thing you are concerned with is being an end game raid main tank ... best bet is to go Warrior. - "The Prot Paly Troll, number 2"
EDIT: per Dilbrt's request ... and a typo :P
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 11:36pm by Maulgak
Maulgak wrote:
He is right...
Shh don't say those words, let people think I'm just ranting and don't know what I'm talking about.
Edited, Dec 22nd 2007 2:29am by Dilbrt
9 posts
Lol, opened a can of worms with a simple question...
IF you are Horde, Paladin/lock unless you are going to be raiding, and not just Kara raiding, unless you want to be a healbot.
IF you are going Alliance, you can be a Draeni Warrior to get that nice HOT and it will help a bit, but my preference would still be paladin.
IF you are Horde, Paladin/lock unless you are going to be raiding, and not just Kara raiding, unless you want to be a healbot.
IF you are going Alliance, you can be a Draeni Warrior to get that nice HOT and it will help a bit, but my preference would still be paladin.
Quote:
However if you don't plan on raiding at all, the trolls of this forum seem to think that paladins are the best tank for pure 5-mans.
That's cause they are.
Also...
Quote:
Pre-BC was all about the retadin (especially tier 2 and 2.5, which is what most raiders had) and BC is all about the heal bot.
Pre-BC Paladins were still healbots. Actually... they were more like Cleanse-bots, as healing wasn't as good as it was now. Retribution was as bad then as it's bad now so raids didn't really seek for them either.
Prot pallies don't suck.
That being said in a raid environment past Karazhan their isn't a whole hell of a lot of room for them. Dilbrt is correct, 1 per raid. Lot of end game raid guilds don't even bother with that since a well played Druid/War tank can generate more threat per second, and even with AOE tank encounters taken into account it still easy to get by without them.
Not saying you can't find a spot, just saying it is even harder and less likely to happen. Especially when 8 times out of ten people prefer that you heal. You will find it very easy to get toe holed into that position.
That being said in a raid environment past Karazhan their isn't a whole hell of a lot of room for them. Dilbrt is correct, 1 per raid. Lot of end game raid guilds don't even bother with that since a well played Druid/War tank can generate more threat per second, and even with AOE tank encounters taken into account it still easy to get by without them.
Not saying you can't find a spot, just saying it is even harder and less likely to happen. Especially when 8 times out of ten people prefer that you heal. You will find it very easy to get toe holed into that position.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
To the OP:
You remarked that having fun with your wife and being able to be an effective pair is more important <other text>.
Choose a paladin. Good combo, more fun. Rest comes later.
You remarked that having fun with your wife and being able to be an effective pair is more important <other text>.
Choose a paladin. Good combo, more fun. Rest comes later.
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