Didn't realize that trying to answer th OP question would turn into this....
What i find most funny is that the OP hasnt even returned to post anything
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Assassination question
Assassination questionFollow
I think we are getting away from from the point, he is not looking for the end all be all raiding spec, if he was he wouldn't have mentioned PvP. From the post it sounds like he will be doing a lot of 5 man, and BG's.
Scholar
25 posts
I disagree, it has to be fun to play as well or what's the point. I enjoyed playing mutilate not cos it was the most effective but cos it's more fun running around to get the positioning . I like combat fists cos it's a bit different but game play wise it's a little boring sometimes. Providing you are not a liability to your guild or instance group it shouldn't be a problem to play the way you want.
Although if maximum effective is your personal thing, well that's ok as ell. :)
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 11:52am by sharisharim
Although if maximum effective is your personal thing, well that's ok as ell. :)
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 11:52am by sharisharim
I have changed my talents some. But for the most part i am doing arenas and Bg's and also raids. We raid about 3-4 times a week, when we raid we usually have 2-3 rogues in the group. Now we have 1 rogue that is combat sword spec and she does a crazy amount of damage. But she has very very good gear, so i would hope that she can do a lot of damage. The other rogue and I have pretty much the same gear, tho i am Mutilate/dagger and he is combat/sword. Now when it comes to damage tho, he can not keep up. By the end of the 3 hour raid i had out damaged him by almost double. Im gonna keep my Mutilate over combat swords. :)
Well i hope you got something out of all of this
ElementHuman wrote:
Yo, PRO MUTILATE USER ALERT. Nice 1.4 off hand you got there bro, nice 19% critical rate there kid. Nice 792 AP you have there. Yeah you been using Mutilate since 50? I have been using Mutilate on and off for about a year now, and I am well aware what the spec is capable of and what the spec needs. If you wanna have fun or versatility go with whatever spec you want, if you are serious about actually earning your spot in raids then spec Combat. OH WAIT, the best specs for arenas right now are HARP, Deep Combat, and Deep Sub.
Viable spec? Sure, but so are SF Swords, but you don't see competent Rogues using that build.
Viable spec? Sure, but so are SF Swords, but you don't see competent Rogues using that build.
I am not claiming to be a pro at mutilate. I am saying that in my experience since my respec, I have not had any trouble questing, BGing and in world PvP with this spec.
You are comparing my gear and stats to a level 70. I am in quest reward/crafted items for my level. The sandstalker boots I am wearing are my riding boots. The daggers are quest rewards from Outlands. I have chosen gear that gives the stat bonuses I need as a rogue.
I have full plans to gear in the Fel Leather set, Primal Intent set, Vengeance Wrap, socket and enchant everything and have the engineering goggles before I ever step foot in a Kara Raid. I have two Ced's Carver's in the bank right now, but I may look into finding some better choices in Heroics and such before I use them for the raids.
Does this list of gear meet your requirements?
Quote:
Yeah and those are the same people who want to spend more time leveling and less time doing end game.
Oh noz! Someone wants to enjoy the game a bit on their way to 70 instead of just getting there and not knowing anything about their class. If all that is important is end game, maybe we should just all pay a power leveler or buy our accounts on eBay.
Quote:
Also, there are some people like those in your guild who don't want to take a **** poor Rogue to a raid and rather take another competent class.
And I am well aware of your guild on Gorgonnash, you guys haven't done much raiding-wise so let me give you a little advice, during progression you don't want to be smash your head into the wall more than you have to, so your guild and class leaders should be forcing people to use the best spec possible. Afterwards when you have the material on farm, sure spec whatever you want, but no reason to be gimping your damage and your guild because you don't like something, thats just selfish.
And I am well aware of your guild on Gorgonnash, you guys haven't done much raiding-wise so let me give you a little advice, during progression you don't want to be smash your head into the wall more than you have to, so your guild and class leaders should be forcing people to use the best spec possible. Afterwards when you have the material on farm, sure spec whatever you want, but no reason to be gimping your damage and your guild because you don't like something, thats just selfish.
No, we are just now getting through Kara, with the help of some more experienced players from another guild. We are on our way to having 3 full raid groups. When the time comes for me to join in, I will discuss my spec and gear with the officers and figure out where I stand and what I need to do.
Quote:
Oh yeah, keep putting points into Sub with that build.
Well, lets see here...I can work my way down to Serrated Blades while I level, which would get me a boost in damage and Initiative helps my CP generation, or I can put 5 points in Oppurtunity and waste the other points in Combat, only to respec again at 70 to get DW Spec. I stated in my very first post that I intend to respec 41/20/0 before I join in raids.
muty needs crit and two of the slowest daggers you can ever find [highest base damage]
Combat needs a fast offhand and a slow mainhand dagger/sword/etc.
This is why there are 2 offhand daggers in the gladiator set. one slow with high base and one fast with lesser base.
Hemo i havent ever tried.
Have been assasination for 3 years now ;p. When i lost my last account i got a new one and made another assas rogue. [current account is may 2006]
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 7:35pm by Tenjen
Combat needs a fast offhand and a slow mainhand dagger/sword/etc.
This is why there are 2 offhand daggers in the gladiator set. one slow with high base and one fast with lesser base.
Hemo i havent ever tried.
Have been assasination for 3 years now ;p. When i lost my last account i got a new one and made another assas rogue. [current account is may 2006]
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 7:35pm by Tenjen
Tenjen wrote:
muty needs crit and two of the slowest daggers you can ever find [highest base damage]
Understood and agreed. Unfortunately, I have not gotten a slower dagger to use, hence the 1.4 speed off hand (quest reward). Before I hit outlands I had two 1.8 50ish daggers, and the 1.4 still did more damage.
Look for Mutilate to be competitive, you need around 25% critical rate, 1300 AP, and be 200+ in hit. I am pulling those numbers from experience and anything less you drop out of out top 5 DPS for a given encounter. Btw, have fun spending a few weeks of game time amassing stuff that will need to be re-gemmed, re-enchanted, and replaced.
Fel Leather sucks when you have end game leather. Primal intent has no gem slots and no +hit, its a poor set in general.
If you need more than 20 levels to tell you how the Rogue class works out, then you have bigger issues. Same goes for every other class out there, WoW isn't hard if you pay attention and aren't retarded. Theres a reason why people work towards end game asap.
Fel Leather sucks when you have end game leather. Primal intent has no gem slots and no +hit, its a poor set in general.
If you need more than 20 levels to tell you how the Rogue class works out, then you have bigger issues. Same goes for every other class out there, WoW isn't hard if you pay attention and aren't retarded. Theres a reason why people work towards end game asap.
O i wasnt refering o your 1.4 dagger. I had the same trouble with finding ideal daggers for quite a while till 70.
All i would find on the AH and all that dropped were caster daggers. Everywhere.
finally got a great offhand dagger from shadowmoon.
All i would find on the AH and all that dropped were caster daggers. Everywhere.
finally got a great offhand dagger from shadowmoon.
ElementHuman wrote:
Look for Mutilate to be competitive, you need around 25% critical rate, 1300 AP, and be 200+ in hit. I am pulling those numbers from experience and anything less you drop out of out top 5 DPS for a given encounter. Btw, have fun spending a few weeks of game time amassing stuff that will need to be re-gemmed, re-enchanted, and replaced.
Fel Leather sucks when you have end game leather. Primal intent has no gem slots and no +hit, its a poor set in general.
If you need more than 20 levels to tell you how the Rogue class works out, then you have bigger issues. Same goes for every other class out there, WoW isn't hard if you pay attention and aren't retarded. Theres a reason why people work towards end game asap.
Fel Leather sucks when you have end game leather. Primal intent has no gem slots and no +hit, its a poor set in general.
If you need more than 20 levels to tell you how the Rogue class works out, then you have bigger issues. Same goes for every other class out there, WoW isn't hard if you pay attention and aren't retarded. Theres a reason why people work towards end game asap.
How about this?
I have equipped all the gear I listed, boosted myself to 70 and filled out the talent tree as I intend on having it for raiding. Using vendor gems in the Fel Set, unbuffed I have:
139 Hit Rating
24.43% crit
1477 AP
That is without replacing my current necklace, rings or trinkets seeing as I have not researched them enough to know what I can have through normal solo/instance drops. I will consider your suggested stats and see if I can move some stuff around to get that +hit up, perhaps sacrifice a bit of AP.
"Fel Leather sucks if you have endgame leather." What do you use to get the endgame leather? That is why I only gemmed it with vendor gems instead of AH gems. I see the flaws in the Primal Intent set, but it would be the easiest set for me to get given the time I have allotted to play (mostly late weekend nights).
Tenjen wrote:
O i wasnt refering o your 1.4 dagger. I had the same trouble with finding ideal daggers for quite a while till 70.
All i would find on the AH and all that dropped were caster daggers. Everywhere.
finally got a great offhand dagger from shadowmoon.
All i would find on the AH and all that dropped were caster daggers. Everywhere.
finally got a great offhand dagger from shadowmoon.
I know what you mean. When I was about to move to Outlands I had Widowmaker and the 49 WSG dagger. I checked the AH every day for a new dagger and couldn't find anything that wasn't for a caster. I finally bought all the mats to have a Heartseeker made, but then I went HP and did two quests that got me the daggers I have now. I thankfully had not had the Heartseeker made yet, so I just resold the mats.
139 is pretty bad...chances are you won't be trading AP for Hit, you'll be trading Crit for Hit.
And you don't need that much to get end game leather, 70 instances, heroic or otherwise have plenty of options to hold you over till Karazhan.
And clearly you are going to spend lots of money to craft your Primal Intent set.
Edited, Jan 4th 2008 10:01am by ElementHuman
And you don't need that much to get end game leather, 70 instances, heroic or otherwise have plenty of options to hold you over till Karazhan.
And clearly you are going to spend lots of money to craft your Primal Intent set.
Edited, Jan 4th 2008 10:01am by ElementHuman
I did some searching, replaced my neck and rings with quest rewards and I got the hit up to 159. I will have to do more searching on gems and see what I can do to get some more. Money is not an issue, I have an alt that plays the AH very well and I have plenty of funding. I also have xmute friends that will do the mights for free (keeping the procs for themselves which I consider fair).
Its gonna be a long hard farm session, but in addition to needing the gear to start raiding, I also need to upgrade my computer, so this will give me something to do in the areas where I don't get bad lag while I wait on RAM and Monitor upgrade money.
I am much enjoying this discussion on the current civil level.
Devil, sorry for the thread hijack.
Its gonna be a long hard farm session, but in addition to needing the gear to start raiding, I also need to upgrade my computer, so this will give me something to do in the areas where I don't get bad lag while I wait on RAM and Monitor upgrade money.
I am much enjoying this discussion on the current civil level.
Devil, sorry for the thread hijack.
Scholar
19 posts
Why does Mulitate need slow high damage daggers? Sorry if I'm a little slow, I'm still trying to understand a lot of how this all works. I've been assassination specced for a while now, but I haven't gotten Mutilate yet. I thought it was better to use fast daggers to apply poison faster? It's been a little difficult for me to figure out the best way for me to spec and what gear to use since I've never been very good at math...all the numbers just boggle my mind! Like, is it better to raise +AP directly, or do STR and AGI increases raise AP more?
I don't do any PvP, and right now I'm lvl 62 focusing on leveling by questing. I do 5-man instances occasionaly, and raiding is out of the question for a while at least. I'm on a low-population server in a fairly new guild (that's growing quickly). I may be interested in doing raids one day, but for now I'm just enjoying playing the game. But I would like any advice that could help be be a better rogue. I think I really like the Assassination spec, but I may try out Combat one day to see if it's better for my play style.
I don't do any PvP, and right now I'm lvl 62 focusing on leveling by questing. I do 5-man instances occasionaly, and raiding is out of the question for a while at least. I'm on a low-population server in a fairly new guild (that's growing quickly). I may be interested in doing raids one day, but for now I'm just enjoying playing the game. But I would like any advice that could help be be a better rogue. I think I really like the Assassination spec, but I may try out Combat one day to see if it's better for my play style.
This is the tooltip for Mutilate: Rank 1 -
Typically, slow weapon equals higher top end damage. So, if you get two equal level daggers, one 1.8 and 1.4, the 1.8 is going to hit harder. So, if you get a hit for as hard as you can, you want that extra 44 (+50%) added to the highest number possible.
Slow MH and fast OH is commonplace for combat specs.
Quote:
Instantly attacks with both weapons for an additional 44 with each weapon. Damage is increased by 50% against Poisoned targets. Must be behind the target. Awards 2 combo points.
Typically, slow weapon equals higher top end damage. So, if you get two equal level daggers, one 1.8 and 1.4, the 1.8 is going to hit harder. So, if you get a hit for as hard as you can, you want that extra 44 (+50%) added to the highest number possible.
Slow MH and fast OH is commonplace for combat specs.
You definitely don't need what you are going for to raid in Kara.
Scholar
19 posts
Ok, so now I see why slower hard-hitting daggers would be best for Mutilate. That gives me more weapon choices...thanks! But what do slow weapons do for your dps the rest of the time? Does the added damage make up for the lack of speed?
And what moves do you all typically use in combination with Mutilate? Like I said before, I don't have it yet, so I'm not really sure how to play it. I just trained Envenom a couple days ago, and I'm still trying to figure out if it's a better finishing move than Eviserate. Most of the time I end up opening with Cheap Shot, spamming SS, then Eviserate. (With Kick & Kidney Shot for casters) I'm sure this probably isn't the most effective method, so I'd like to experiment with other options.
And what do you do with a Mutilate build agaist poison-immune mobs?
And what moves do you all typically use in combination with Mutilate? Like I said before, I don't have it yet, so I'm not really sure how to play it. I just trained Envenom a couple days ago, and I'm still trying to figure out if it's a better finishing move than Eviserate. Most of the time I end up opening with Cheap Shot, spamming SS, then Eviserate. (With Kick & Kidney Shot for casters) I'm sure this probably isn't the most effective method, so I'd like to experiment with other options.
And what do you do with a Mutilate build agaist poison-immune mobs?
You sit there and twiddle your thumbs.
And Eviscerate and Envenom are both poor finishers outside of grinding and trash.
And Eviscerate and Envenom are both poor finishers outside of grinding and trash.
Scholar
19 posts
So what finishing moves & combos do you suggest?
SnD, Rupture, Eviscerate, Kidney Shot (if Mutilate or applicable), Envenom. In that order.
envenom is actually a bit higher than that. But then again i have 20% put into it.
Basicly if nothing else is available evisc is a sure bet. and envenom good if you consider it first. For example murmur is one such example. Or any mob which isnt going to face the full brunt of your deadly poisons.
Even without the 20% i find it does better for me on the damage charts. In raids and instances.
but not raid bosses. you leave that on the raid boss if you can in fact poison it.
I'd suggest use both of them and see what you like for situation.
Edited, Jan 6th 2008 9:10pm by Tenjen
Basicly if nothing else is available evisc is a sure bet. and envenom good if you consider it first. For example murmur is one such example. Or any mob which isnt going to face the full brunt of your deadly poisons.
Even without the 20% i find it does better for me on the damage charts. In raids and instances.
but not raid bosses. you leave that on the raid boss if you can in fact poison it.
I'd suggest use both of them and see what you like for situation.
Edited, Jan 6th 2008 9:10pm by Tenjen
Scholar
19 posts
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I need to move my buttons around and experiment more. I did use Envenom a little more this weekend, but there weren't many fights where I had a full stack of 5 deadly poisons up on a mob to get the full effect. I've got 5/5 Vile and Imp Poisons, but it still seems that the poisons don't stack fast enough. Maybe it was just the mobs I was fighting. And I didn't get a chance to run any instances, so I haven't tried it out on any bosses yet.
Nobody cares about finishers on trash, its trash.
For instance, I use to throw up a 5 Point Expose Armor before 5 Sunders were stacked to test new tanks and how they deal when the aggro situation changes dramatically on trash.
Envenom in all regards is bad because of what you are losing to do a little (its a little in the big picture) more damage. DT probably won't stack 5 on trash and losing a stack of 5 on a raid boss is more DPS lost than gained. Therefore, you should really never use this finisher. Chances are if a boss is bleed immune, then its poison immune too so you are out of luck there.
For instance, I use to throw up a 5 Point Expose Armor before 5 Sunders were stacked to test new tanks and how they deal when the aggro situation changes dramatically on trash.
Envenom in all regards is bad because of what you are losing to do a little (its a little in the big picture) more damage. DT probably won't stack 5 on trash and losing a stack of 5 on a raid boss is more DPS lost than gained. Therefore, you should really never use this finisher. Chances are if a boss is bleed immune, then its poison immune too so you are out of luck there.
Recent Visitors: 161
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (161)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Assassination question
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC