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Assassination questionFollow

#1 Dec 21 2007 at 9:25 AM Rating: Default
I'm a level 70 Rogue and i do a Ok amount of PVP but alot of PVE. Im trying to get my Talent tree fixed up some. I have a quick question tho. This is my current setup http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Ravenholdt&n=Devilsslave.

I'm thinking about removing the 4 points from "Deadened Nerves" and also removing 1 point from "Find weakness" And adding those points to max out "fleet Footed" and max out "Improved kidney shot" Do you think that its a good idea? Is deadened nerves really worth it? Also I really dont even like find weakness at all. I was also thinking of removing all the points off that and putting those points into "Vile Poisons" Let me know what ya all think! Thanks in advance.
#2 Dec 21 2007 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
this would prob. be the best of both worlds for ya

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheboxgoizVoZVMe0Mh
#3 Dec 21 2007 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
Ok i like the new tree that you have put together but should i really put no points into "master of deception" Doesn't that help me alot in both PVP and PVE?
#4 Dec 21 2007 at 12:45 PM Rating: Default
And also... Murder?? 2% damage increased. Why would i waste the 2 point in there when i could but it in Improved Kidney shot? The IKS will give me 6% damage from all sources. Murder seems useless.
#5 Dec 21 2007 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
Anyone else have any good ideas?
#6 Dec 21 2007 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
No Hemorrage in the setup? i hear so much talk about it.
#7 Dec 21 2007 at 2:04 PM Rating: Default
Yeah i dont use hemo. I like using daggers. Plus i have spent a lot of time into my daggers. From what i read it seems that hemo is more geared towards PVP. I do PVP but im geared more for PVE. And i plan on being more PVE then PVP.
#8 Dec 21 2007 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
So does most everybody agree that assassination tree does more dps then the combat tree? I am talking PvE, i have a level 44 rogue at the moment and wanting to know which tree to go into for best dps.

mike
#9 Dec 21 2007 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
I had combat up untill about 50. To be honest i didn't like it much. I would be running instances and other Rogues thats were assassination spec would rock me in DPS. Plus i usually had a lot better gear then them. I like assassination for PVE. But thats just me.
#10 Jan 02 2008 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
but should i really put no points into "master of deception"


You can switch out camo for MoD, but if you learn to live without it it will make u a better rogue..use distract!

Quote:
And also... Murder?? 2% damage increased. Why would i waste the 2 point in there when i could but it in Improved Kidney shot? The IKS will give me 6% damage from all sources. Murder seems useless.


If a boss or mob is immune to stun then Improved KS is useless

Quote:
So does most everybody agree that assassination tree does more dps then the combat tree?


No, combat does more damage, but ***. runs a nice 2nd. The lack of position requirements in combat make doing Damage much easier.


#11 Jan 02 2008 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
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2,550 posts
Yea 2% damage basically all the time vs. 6% damage not so much of the time.

So unless you have some kind of ridiculous hidden burst damage during those 6 seconds of KS that beats out the 2% in almost every raid all the time Murder is better.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 7:43am by GodOfMoo
#12 Jan 02 2008 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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704 posts
Quote:
this would prob. be the best of both worlds for ya

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fh...izVoZVMe0Mh


That looks like my exact build come 70. I will be switching out the sub specs for combat though, since I plan on mostly raiding.

Quote:
Ok i like the new tree that you have put together but should i really put no points into "master of deception" Doesn't that help me alot in both PVP and PVE?


MoD is nice in BGs and such, but in PvE you should be using distract, as mentioned by another poster. You might could swap around a couple points into both, but I find Camo to be more useful.

Quote:
And also... Murder?? 2% damage increased. Why would i waste the 2 point in there when i could but it in Improved Kidney shot? The IKS will give me 6% damage from all sources. Murder seems useless.


Again, as another poster mentioned, 2% all the time is better than 6% some times. Also, in a raid, you won't be kidney shotting unless you are catching a runner or something. You should be using SnD and Rupture in a raid. Imp KS is better for PvP, but you are trying to find the balance between that and PvE.

Quote:
No Hemorrage in the setup? i hear so much talk about it.


You can't reach Hemo and Mutilate. You wouldn't use Hemo in a Muti build anyway, since it is not as energy efficient.

Quote:
Quote:
So does most everybody agree that assassination tree does more dps then the combat tree?



No, combat does more damage, but ***. runs a nice 2nd. The lack of position requirements in combat make doing Damage much easier.


QFT

Overall, Mutilate is a fun and viable spec, but it has its weak spots. Consider your playstyle and choose the spec that is right for you.
#13 Jan 02 2008 at 9:29 AM Rating: Default
Uh no, if you are going to raid and you are on progression, you had better be Combat Swords, none of the other specs comes mildly close (Fists don't count, itemization for Fists <<<<<< itemization for Swords).
#14 Jan 02 2008 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Uh no, if you are going to raid and you are on progression, you had better be Combat Swords, none of the other specs comes mildly close (Fists don't count, itemization for Fists <<<<<< itemization for Swords).


Well if he is aking these types of questions, he is not at the point where the difference is that crucial, and if you do the math combat daggers out does swords for damage output.



Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 12:39pm by Faylis
#15 Jan 02 2008 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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2,602 posts
Quote:
Fists don't count, itemization for Fists <<<<<< itemization for Swords


Yes but you can only have 1 sword in each hand. SO it doesnt matter how many swords you have out there available.

Check out the arena fists.

Fists is fun.

Plenty of fists in end game.

But since our OP here isnt endgame.

I suggest mutilate. Its fun.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 5:48pm by Tenjen
#16 Jan 02 2008 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
/agree
#17 Jan 02 2008 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
Don't be retarded and post Dagger out damages Swords, even with the recent nerfs to Sword spec it doesn't come close by any means, if you have to ask why, then you have even less of a clue than I originally thought.

And don't spec Mutilate if you don't have the gear for it, its up there with Hemo for gear dependency.
#18 Jan 02 2008 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
Combat daggers in theroy craft will out damage swords, but it is very dependent on factors.So what i said holds true

Quote:
and if you do the math combat daggers out does swords for damage output.


He's was asking an Assassination question, so if you have nothing to offer then wait until the title says "comat swords question"



Edited, Jan 2nd 2008 2:42pm by Faylis
#19 Jan 02 2008 at 11:43 AM Rating: Default
...no one cares about what should happen on paper...
#20 Jan 02 2008 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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2,550 posts
If it were possible to include a variable for positioning, and poisons(for Muti if thats what you want) then it wouldn't beat it in theory.
#21 Jan 02 2008 at 2:31 PM Rating: Default
And if Faylis would actually follow the entire thread and not just the OP + my post then he/she would actually realize I was referring to AtrophyGFour's post about choosing whatever spec suits you.
#22 Jan 03 2008 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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704 posts
ElementHuman wrote:
And if Faylis would actually follow the entire thread and not just the OP + my post then he/she would actually realize I was referring to AtrophyGFour's post about choosing whatever spec suits you.


And what exactly is the gear that you need for Mutilate spec? Feel free to check my armory and let me know if my gear does not meet your requirements to use the spec, but as I see it, I have been mutilate since 50, it is a very viable spec fore PvE and PvP and I see no reason to change or not suggest it to other players considering the build.

ElementHuman wrote:
Uh no, if you are going to raid and you are on progression, you had better be Combat Swords, none of the other specs comes mildly close (Fists don't count, itemization for Fists <<<<<< itemization for Swords).


There are some people in the world (of Warcraft) that want to do more with their toons than spam SS and eviscerate all the way to 70. And it makes no sense for you to come in and say a person "better" use a specific spec when raiding. Are you going to come to their server and corpse camp them if they don't?

#23 Jan 03 2008 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent
35 posts
There is a reason that Combat swords is the most common raiding spec. It shouldn't come as any surprise that the reason is because it works so well. Most of the raid leaders I've dealt with will always ask their rogues to spec combat swords, and the rogues will usually comply without hesitation. The ones that refuse end up grabbing S1 maces and doing PvP or finding a guild that likes doing 5mans.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 10:21am by cnewlin
#24 Jan 03 2008 at 8:17 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
And what exactly is the gear that you need for Mutilate spec? Feel free to check my armory and let me know if my gear does not meet your requirements to use the spec, but as I see it, I have been mutilate since 50, it is a very viable spec fore PvE and PvP and I see no reason to change or not suggest it to other players considering the build.


Yo, PRO MUTILATE USER ALERT. Nice 1.4 off hand you got there bro, nice 19% critical rate there kid. Nice 792 AP you have there. Yeah you been using Mutilate since 50? I have been using Mutilate on and off for about a year now, and I am well aware what the spec is capable of and what the spec needs. If you wanna have fun or versatility go with whatever spec you want, if you are serious about actually earning your spot in raids then spec Combat. OH WAIT, the best specs for arenas right now are HARP, Deep Combat, and Deep Sub.

Viable spec? Sure, but so are SF Swords, but you don't see competent Rogues using that build.

Quote:

There are some people in the world (of Warcraft) that want to do more with their toons than spam SS and eviscerate all the way to 70.


Yeah and those are the same people who want to spend more time leveling and less time doing end game.

Also, there are some people like those in your guild who don't want to take a **** poor Rogue to a raid and rather take another competent class.

And I am well aware of your guild on Gorgonnash, you guys haven't done much raiding-wise so let me give you a little advice, during progression you don't want to be smash your head into the wall more than you have to, so your guild and class leaders should be forcing people to use the best spec possible. Afterwards when you have the material on farm, sure spec whatever you want, but no reason to be gimping your damage and your guild because you don't like something, thats just selfish.

Oh yeah, keep putting points into Sub with that build.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 11:34am by ElementHuman
#25 Jan 03 2008 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
25 posts
I must admit I don't really spend a lot of time crunching the numbers, which is probably beyond my feeble peanut sized brain but...

I am combat fist at the moment, and the number of fist items is definitely less but they look infinitely cooler :) . Must say though most fun I had as a rogue was a mutilate spec, even though the dps wasn't quite as good.

All about personal preference.
#26 Jan 03 2008 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
35 posts
Quote:
All about personal preference.


Unfortunately, it isn't. Some specs are better than others for certain things. Personal preference should always take a backseat to effectiveness. That's the entire reason why mages walk around with fiery enchant on their staves because it looks "cool," or why hunters are DWing with icy and demonslaying enchants.
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