Ok, so I have been reading these forums almost since i started playing back in April and have been slowly gathering all of the knowledge this group puts out. However, now i have a question i haven't quite seen an answer to yet and seeing as how this is my first post i thought I would make it an interesting one.
Why is it that BM does so much more dps than Marksman? I have been specced marksman since the start, and now I am going dipping into survival.
However, I have noticed, (not having grouped with many BM hunters), that even when on main CC duties, as i was the other night in a Ramps run with 2 warlocks, a warrior and a holy preist, I am dishing out some major damage, coming in well over both warlocks, who were equal lvl to me. All the time while being the only source of CC.
In the battle grounds, although I am only lvl 64, i find myself on top of the damage dealt charts in every game I play. This is of course in WSG and Arathi, not playing with lvl 70s but still. Rouges, higher lvl hunters, locks, mages, nothing is topping me.
At my college, everyone thinks hunters need a huge nerf after watching me play. PvP and PvE alike, I can't Figure it out, maybe somebody can shed some light on the BM vs Marks spec for me.
Here's my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-...amp;n=Ratib
as you can see i don't have great gear, and please excuse the magma forged ring, I am working on replacing it.
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A dedicated marksman, and a little confusedFollow
The thing which makes BM spec do more damage than MM spec is mainly serpent swiftness (20%increase to the attack speed of the hunter and the pet).
The second thing is the buffed damage of the pet.
Thus in all fights where one can safely use the pet, BM will do more damage. In fights where pets have a hard time BM and MM spec will be on par.
A few sidenotes:
Just because you can out-dps other classes with your MM spec does not mean that BM spec does less damage, it might be that you can own other classes better as a BM :-)
However hunters do not need a nerf ATM. The power of hunters in PvP is rather balanced (yes we destroy some classes, but get destroyed by others as well).
In PvE hunters are ok ATM. I cannot talk about the highest level of raiding but until tier5 content hunters are doing fine.
It is not uncommon that hunters top the damage charts on battlegrounds. We don't have to run to our enemy, we can do great dps with short casts and we are often not the first target which gets nuked (thus we usually live a lot longer and thus can do more damage).
However while you'll mostly see hunters and warlocks topping the damage dealt list, other classes will often have more killing blows. That might be because other classes might have higher damage spikes killing stuff while us poor hunters will do more steady damage where yet another heal can go through (of course when there is some teamplay such things won't matter much, but we are talking battlegrounds here :P ).
The second thing is the buffed damage of the pet.
Thus in all fights where one can safely use the pet, BM will do more damage. In fights where pets have a hard time BM and MM spec will be on par.
A few sidenotes:
Just because you can out-dps other classes with your MM spec does not mean that BM spec does less damage, it might be that you can own other classes better as a BM :-)
However hunters do not need a nerf ATM. The power of hunters in PvP is rather balanced (yes we destroy some classes, but get destroyed by others as well).
In PvE hunters are ok ATM. I cannot talk about the highest level of raiding but until tier5 content hunters are doing fine.
It is not uncommon that hunters top the damage charts on battlegrounds. We don't have to run to our enemy, we can do great dps with short casts and we are often not the first target which gets nuked (thus we usually live a lot longer and thus can do more damage).
However while you'll mostly see hunters and warlocks topping the damage dealt list, other classes will often have more killing blows. That might be because other classes might have higher damage spikes killing stuff while us poor hunters will do more steady damage where yet another heal can go through (of course when there is some teamplay such things won't matter much, but we are talking battlegrounds here :P ).
When we do kara, we have 2 hunters with us, my Marks hunter and another who is BM. We both have pretty much equal gear, half epics, half dungeon blues with enchants and all that on. Most of the time I won't use my pet, as he dies pretty easy, and I always beat the other hunter in DPS by a good margin. *shrugs*
I've heard that BM is supposed to do more damage in Kara too, so I don't know if either A) they are wrong or B) our other hunter isn't doing the damage she should be doing
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 5:21am by jpaugh
I've heard that BM is supposed to do more damage in Kara too, so I don't know if either A) they are wrong or B) our other hunter isn't doing the damage she should be doing
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 5:21am by jpaugh
Well, I can't say how much extra damage I started to do in Kara after specc'ing to BM, because I went from MM to BM for my very first Kara run. But I feel like I'm killing stuff so much faster in solo grinding.
When I was MM, my tooltip DPS was at in the very low 300s with AotH and TSA. When I went BM, my tooltip DPS was STILL in the low 300s, within a few points, and I had lost TSA. It's because of the attack speed increase. However, my pet does an insane amount of extra damage. Plus, when it scores a critical hit (which is a lot, because I have cobra reflexes, Gore and Bite), I gain a 3% damage increase, which is active more often than not.
And I'll have to disagree with Mulgrin. If you put a BM hunter and a MM together with active pets, but they aren't able to attack, the BM hunter will probably still out damage the MM because of The Beast Within and Serpent's Swiftness.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter what spec you are- since they're all viable DPS specs. Tests have shown that a BM hunter can out DPS a MM hunter any day of the week; but if the MM hunter knows what he's doing, and the BM hunter doesn't, the MM hunter will own face.
When I was MM, my tooltip DPS was at in the very low 300s with AotH and TSA. When I went BM, my tooltip DPS was STILL in the low 300s, within a few points, and I had lost TSA. It's because of the attack speed increase. However, my pet does an insane amount of extra damage. Plus, when it scores a critical hit (which is a lot, because I have cobra reflexes, Gore and Bite), I gain a 3% damage increase, which is active more often than not.
And I'll have to disagree with Mulgrin. If you put a BM hunter and a MM together with active pets, but they aren't able to attack, the BM hunter will probably still out damage the MM because of The Beast Within and Serpent's Swiftness.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter what spec you are- since they're all viable DPS specs. Tests have shown that a BM hunter can out DPS a MM hunter any day of the week; but if the MM hunter knows what he's doing, and the BM hunter doesn't, the MM hunter will own face.
I was MM spec all the way until i started outlands. I quickly realized that the mobs we're a bit more formidable and that's when i changed my pet and changed spec to BM. I lasted a lot longer that way because pet held agro a lot longer and tons easier with Intimidation. Also BM spec gives more life and armor for you and pet. I specced back to MM like at lvl 66-68 or so, and was just not happy at all, Kept pulling agro from pet with opening sequnce of shots. Sure i coulda held back but why? It only took a day of re-learning FD and mend all the dam time to realize it was way way way more efficient for "ME" to be BM. I could kill at least 2x more mobs in an area before needing to drink/eat as BM spec. I'm not sure if this helps but Just play your style.
Ratib wrote:
Why is it that BM does so much more dps than Marksman?
Going from Marks 0/44/17 to BM 41/20/0 i noticed a slight decrease in my personal DPS - less than 10% probably. The overall increase however, came from the fact that my pet contributed a much larger percentage than before, as well as providing Ferocious Inspiration.
Ratib wrote:
... I am only lvl 64
Timorith wrote:
Ratib wrote:
Why is it that BM does so much more dps than Marksman?
Going from Marks 0/44/17 to BM 41/20/0 i noticed a slight decrease in my personal DPS - less than 10% probably. The overall increase however, came from the fact that my pet contributed a much larger percentage than before, as well as providing Ferocious Inspiration.
Ratib wrote:
... I am only lvl 64
I thought steady shot was at 62...
Personally, I'm a big fan of Marks DPS.
There are a lot of ways for softies to get away from your pet, sometimes even when it's big and red. However getting out of your shot range is a bit more difficult.
The difference between marks and BM in terms of Hunter-only DPS output is rather substantial.
I may be wrong, but I think with gear MM will slowly start to out-DPS BM later on.
The best PvP hunters I know prefer Marks because it gives them better control.
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Well thanks guys, that certainly cleared up a lot of my confusion about this whole spec war thing that seems to be going on. I love mm, I probably couldn't live long through anything without scatter, aimed, and silencing shot, its how I play. Ive gotten used to seeing multishot crit every other time i shoot it as well.
Also I do have steady shot (lvl 62 not 64), and already do a full dps shot rotation when needed. As far as Buster, my cat, holding agro, even when he looses it, I'm used to feigning, or usually just killing it before it gets close to me.
Also I do have steady shot (lvl 62 not 64), and already do a full dps shot rotation when needed. As far as Buster, my cat, holding agro, even when he looses it, I'm used to feigning, or usually just killing it before it gets close to me.
Jordster, Assassin Reject wrote:
Personally, I'm a big fan of Marks DPS.
There are a lot of ways for softies to get away from your pet, sometimes even when it's big and red. However getting out of your shot range is a bit more difficult.
The difference between marks and BM in terms of Hunter-only DPS output is rather substantial.
I may be wrong, but I think with gear MM will slowly start to out-DPS BM later on.
The best PvP hunters I know prefer Marks because it gives them better control.
Agreed, Marks is more favorable for PvP, especially if you spec with improved concussive shot, Arcane, Scatter shot and silencing shot. The high end critical strike damage of MM is what makes it better for PvP, BM is more constant/consistant damage. I could often blow squishies off the face of the earth with 2 shots if Aimed crit, then a Arcane shot to finish the job.
Nevertheless, I still think BM is a viable PvP spec, although it is a lot more reliant on cooldowns. It's not as if a BM hunter has no means to keep a squishy from running away. Intimidation then pop Beast wrath pretty much means they aren't going anywhere fast. A BM could also still spec with imp CC shot and Arcane if they wanted to put 20 into marks. BM in pvp just requires a little more finesse than MM and good use of your cooldowns.
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