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If the great tyrandor is in the 1700's then I must be doing pretty damn well to be at 1681... Thanks for the confidence boost.
its funny reading this, because it seems like theres this cycle of rock-paper-scissors-like dominance that goes on in arena. fighting a rogue/pally as war/druid is pretty brutal. theres not a damn thing a warrior can do to stop a snare-and-root immune rogue while his druid has JoJ on him. but pally/war trumps rogue/pally, while priest/rogue trumps pally/war, which is in turn trumped by druid/war, which gets owned by rogue/pally....
and the cycle goes on.
i really wish they would remove drinking from arenas. hell, remove healthstones too if thatll make things more balanced on the overall. im tired of 15+ minute games because you just cant friggin catch the healer, and i dislike having to play war/druid simply because its the only way ill be on par with the cajillions of other war/druid teams out there.
and the cycle goes on.
i really wish they would remove drinking from arenas. hell, remove healthstones too if thatll make things more balanced on the overall. im tired of 15+ minute games because you just cant friggin catch the healer, and i dislike having to play war/druid simply because its the only way ill be on par with the cajillions of other war/druid teams out there.
I like attrition battles and the style you can take with it now.
It's a lot more methodical and thoughtout/planned than, "Point and explode".
It's a lot more methodical and thoughtout/planned than, "Point and explode".
i dont mind battles that are more like a chess game than the wham-bam-thank you ma'am style that existed before hand, but theres such a thing as being too chess-like. a five minute game in 2v2 isnt bad. a 15+ minute game in 2v2 is outright wrong.
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Or Warlock until HARP is nerf'd.
The warlock + rogue setup is pretty strong. The only direct counters I'd see are rogue/druid and rogue/warrior. With well timed CC theres an insane amount of strong matchups for lock/rogue.
rogue/lock does have a lot of CC, but its hampered somewhat by the fact that the good lock arena build is DoT-heavy and thus negates the usage of blind somewhat. youd have to split DPS in order to assure that blind isnt broken, which is quite possible, but its not terribly hard to interrupt the warlock to prevent fearing, which means its likely there will be a trinket to break the blind should it occur.
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 2:52am by Quor
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 2:52am by Quor
Quor wrote:
rogue/lock does have a lot of CC, but its hampered somewhat by the fact that the good lock arena build is DoT-heavy and thus negates the usage of blind somewhat. youd have to split DPS in order to assure that blind isnt broken, which is quite possible, but its not terribly hard to interrupt the warlock to prevent fearing, which means its likely there will be a trinket to break the blind should it occur.
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 2:52am by Quor
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 2:52am by Quor
Quor's good. lol.
DEMEA READ THIS.
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DEMEA READ THIS.
Yeah, I just finished reading through the whole thread. And I read that thread that you linked to me last night.
We are going to make children cry.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Played 8 more games, ending with 9win-10loses, and slumping under 1700. /shame.
Of those 8 games, 6 were against druids. Hopefully the 3v3 goes better.
We did manage to beat a few war/druid team by having the Priest PI himself and throw everything he had damage wise on the Warrior... this forced the druid to heal a lot more aggressivley (As with both our dps, HoTs weren't cutting it) and earned us 2 wins.
But then the next War/Druid team healed through it without a problem and the warriors killed us. Which makes me believe our wins were more related to the druid ******** or having lesser gear... So back to the drawing board once again.
Then again, I don't think it's even worth trying again to be honest. I just might need to get a different partner.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 12:50pm by Tyrandor
Of those 8 games, 6 were against druids. Hopefully the 3v3 goes better.
We did manage to beat a few war/druid team by having the Priest PI himself and throw everything he had damage wise on the Warrior... this forced the druid to heal a lot more aggressivley (As with both our dps, HoTs weren't cutting it) and earned us 2 wins.
But then the next War/Druid team healed through it without a problem and the warriors killed us. Which makes me believe our wins were more related to the druid ******** or having lesser gear... So back to the drawing board once again.
Then again, I don't think it's even worth trying again to be honest. I just might need to get a different partner.
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 12:50pm by Tyrandor
The Demea of Doom wrote:
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DEMEA READ THIS.
Yeah, I just finished reading through the whole thread. And I read that thread that you linked to me last night.
We are going to make children cry.
omg cool
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rogue/lock does have a lot of CC, but its hampered somewhat by the fact that the good lock arena build is DoT-heavy and thus negates the usage of blind somewhat. youd have to split DPS in order to assure that blind isnt broken, which is quite possible, but its not terribly hard to interrupt the warlock to prevent fearing, which means its likely there will be a trinket to break the blind should it occur.
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
ive fought a few rogue/lock setups, and it becomes very much a game of attrition, at least for war/druid. i hunker down and dont touch zerker stance while i DPS the rogue with hammer+shield, keeping piercing howl up and an eye out for the warlock. the smart rogues will wait to KS me until the warlock is doing something key, like a mana drain or a fear, so usually anytime a warlock starts creeping towards fear range ill flip to zerker and intercept, then swap back to battle, hammy the lock, and begin dpsing the rogue again (with my 1hlol dps >.<). the trick is to not get below 50% life. if my druid can keep me up above that its not terribly hard. if the lock sends the pet on me to eat HoT's, i snare it, taunt it, mocking blow it, challenging shout it, then taunt it again, which gives my druid ample time to get a few ticks of drink in.
Yeah its a tough setup for lock/rogue. I still don't think warrior/druid is a direct counter, but its a tough fight. My strategy would be kill the druid, ignore the warrior and keep curse of exhausion on you. I know you'd be intercepting, pummeling and hamstringing me to keep me out of fear range on your druid, but you just have to work through it, trinket at the right time and luckily I have escape artist which helps a bit. The rogue would have to be working stuns and shivs on the druid so I can get in close to fear him, 1v1 the druid will just pole-dance my fears all day long. So I'd need to the rogue stunning him in place throughout the fight, but once you get a druid locked up in a fear chain they can be in big trouble. If we take too long to kill the druid, you as a warrior will kill one of us so it has to be a fast fight.
After finally getting a disc priest I find out that druid teams are our worst nightmare . . . and I thought I would find an easy answer here :'(
Tyrandor, when you find an efficient way to kill druids with a rogue/priest combot make it sticky plz :)
Tyrandor, when you find an efficient way to kill druids with a rogue/priest combot make it sticky plz :)
They aren't our bane per say, they're clearly overpowered in 2v2, no way you can really argue against that.
Played again today, turned our 9-10 into a 25-18, going back solidly into the 1700s and going 16-8 today... number of druid team? 4. We lost all 4. Apparently, today was druid sabbatical day or something.
Not going to complain about it, mind you. Then again, it does suck to know your success rate is directly related to druid team queuing or not.
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 3:04pm by Tyrandor
Played again today, turned our 9-10 into a 25-18, going back solidly into the 1700s and going 16-8 today... number of druid team? 4. We lost all 4. Apparently, today was druid sabbatical day or something.
Not going to complain about it, mind you. Then again, it does suck to know your success rate is directly related to druid team queuing or not.
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 3:04pm by Tyrandor
Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
They aren't our bane per say, they're clearly overpowered in 2v2, no way you can really argue against that.
Played again today, turned our 9-10 into a 25-18, going back solidly into the 1700s and going 16-8 today... number of druid team? 4. We lost all 4. Apparently, today was druid sabbatical day or something.
Not going to complain about it, mind you. Then again, it does suck to know your success rate is directly related to druid team queuing or not.
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 3:04pm by Tyrandor
Played again today, turned our 9-10 into a 25-18, going back solidly into the 1700s and going 16-8 today... number of druid team? 4. We lost all 4. Apparently, today was druid sabbatical day or something.
Not going to complain about it, mind you. Then again, it does suck to know your success rate is directly related to druid team queuing or not.
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 3:04pm by Tyrandor
It's been awhile but you are revoking deep old feelings in me of what it's like facing a hard counter. lol
Can't you just stick on them spamming shiv?
mikelolol wrote:
Can't you just stick on them spamming shiv?
Yea. That's the way to beat them, and it's easy once you understand and can do it, but learning it, and getting your mind straight for it takes a lot of work.
Not as rogue/Disc priest, it isn't.
You can't stay on a Druid when his Warrior/Warlock partner is helping him get away. Well, you can, until you're out of cooldown... and since your damage is lowered by your Shiving (and being supported by a non-shadow priest, you're basically all the dps), he's not going down before you're out of cooldown.
Unless you're grossly outgearing them.
Now with a partner that has some form of CC on his own (Druid Cyclone/Roots, Mage poly, Warlock Fear) and can assist with dps on the target (mostly mage/lock here), I can see this tactic working pretty well.
You can't stay on a Druid when his Warrior/Warlock partner is helping him get away. Well, you can, until you're out of cooldown... and since your damage is lowered by your Shiving (and being supported by a non-shadow priest, you're basically all the dps), he's not going down before you're out of cooldown.
Unless you're grossly outgearing them.
Now with a partner that has some form of CC on his own (Druid Cyclone/Roots, Mage poly, Warlock Fear) and can assist with dps on the target (mostly mage/lock here), I can see this tactic working pretty well.
So I been rollin 2v2 w/ a feral druid and it seems ok I just would love some pointers on strategy. For the most part (seeing as the druids heals r weak as hell) we either bash the hell out of the first clothy/healer we see or jump on the pally to force the bubble early then jump to the other guy and try to nuke him before the pally has a chance to fish the heals on himself.
The only classes we've really had trouble with (and not because of mistakes we've made) is:
pallys for obvious reasons
druids unless we can get the jump on their druid and stun lock
We havent had too many problems w/ other dps teams just quirks that can be adjusted as we're fighting like mage/mage having to push through their kiting and alternating when the ice block pops (some times i wish i had shadowstep ;p)
Another thing is pets should we pwr through them or what? The only one that I jump on off the bat is mage's pet just for the fact their hp is extremly low 2 shot at the most.
One last thing aoe's what do u guys normally do just bite the bullet and jump in? Its usually the case for me against pallys and hunters some times i can get in side w/ a mage between explosions but all in all it ends up breakin my stealth.
I guess what I'm gettin at is, Is the smartest thing to do, w/ a predominatly dps team, explode and hope for the best? The last few matches for this week we were screwin around, mounted up and bum rushed, half the time the other guys couldn't get situated and the only thing we're lookin for is 1st the healer and/or 2nd the clothie lol. It defintly didnt work against druids and rogues though heh. Any info would help whether its for me as the rogue or my druid friend thanks.
The only classes we've really had trouble with (and not because of mistakes we've made) is:
pallys for obvious reasons
druids unless we can get the jump on their druid and stun lock
We havent had too many problems w/ other dps teams just quirks that can be adjusted as we're fighting like mage/mage having to push through their kiting and alternating when the ice block pops (some times i wish i had shadowstep ;p)
Another thing is pets should we pwr through them or what? The only one that I jump on off the bat is mage's pet just for the fact their hp is extremly low 2 shot at the most.
One last thing aoe's what do u guys normally do just bite the bullet and jump in? Its usually the case for me against pallys and hunters some times i can get in side w/ a mage between explosions but all in all it ends up breakin my stealth.
I guess what I'm gettin at is, Is the smartest thing to do, w/ a predominatly dps team, explode and hope for the best? The last few matches for this week we were screwin around, mounted up and bum rushed, half the time the other guys couldn't get situated and the only thing we're lookin for is 1st the healer and/or 2nd the clothie lol. It defintly didnt work against druids and rogues though heh. Any info would help whether its for me as the rogue or my druid friend thanks.
Played again yesterday, managed to hit 1801... felt great.
Figured we'd finish our climb to 1850 today, but I guess druid sabbatical was over. Plummted back down to 1692... even lost to a Druid/Hunter combo of all thing (They both drank at least a few times... god, it's such a cheap mechanism).
/sigh.
Getting depressed >_<
Figured we'd finish our climb to 1850 today, but I guess druid sabbatical was over. Plummted back down to 1692... even lost to a Druid/Hunter combo of all thing (They both drank at least a few times... god, it's such a cheap mechanism).
/sigh.
Getting depressed >_<
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One last thing aoe's what do u guys normally do just bite the bullet and jump in? Its usually the case for me against pallys and hunters some times i can get in side w/ a mage between explosions but all in all it ends up breakin my stealth.
I guess what I'm gettin at is, Is the smartest thing to do, w/ a predominatly dps team, explode and hope for the best? The last few matches for this week we were screwin around, mounted up and bum rushed, half the time the other guys couldn't get situated and the only thing we're lookin for is 1st the healer and/or 2nd the clothie lol. It defintly didnt work against druids and rogues though heh. Any info would help whether its for me as the rogue or my druid friend thanks.
I guess what I'm gettin at is, Is the smartest thing to do, w/ a predominatly dps team, explode and hope for the best? The last few matches for this week we were screwin around, mounted up and bum rushed, half the time the other guys couldn't get situated and the only thing we're lookin for is 1st the healer and/or 2nd the clothie lol. It defintly didnt work against druids and rogues though heh. Any info would help whether its for me as the rogue or my druid friend thanks.
First watch their mana bar, I run around spamming rank 1 arcane explosion so it uses almost no mana, but watch for it -- they might be using max rank AE/consecrate and burning through mana like a noob. So just be patient.
Perfect latency would help, so would fast reaction times. Every other class has a 1.5s GCD, so if you can wait just outside AE radius then sneak in and sap immediately after you should be fine. You really want to keep that stealth if you can.
Still haven't figured out hunter flares too well, I don't understand those stupid pets. Sometimes a hunter pops a flare and sits on it....fine. I go in to sap him from 10 yards, nice it didn't break stealth. Oh wait his pets attacking me, awesome. Gotta love stupid hunter pets...
Quote:
Played again yesterday, managed to hit 1801... felt great.
Figured we'd finish our climb to 1850 today, but I guess druid sabbatical was over. Plummted back down to 1692... even lost to a Druid/Hunter combo of all thing (They both drank at least a few times... god, it's such a cheap mechanism).
/sigh.
Getting depressed >_<
Figured we'd finish our climb to 1850 today, but I guess druid sabbatical was over. Plummted back down to 1692... even lost to a Druid/Hunter combo of all thing (They both drank at least a few times... god, it's such a cheap mechanism).
/sigh.
Getting depressed >_<
That sucks man. I didn't make a push for my rating until the last week or S2....right when rogues got buffed and they all went AR/prep. I was a UA warlock because my disc priest had such crappy gear that I needed some "oomph" to finish off people. UA really has that, especially when I'm not getting focused.
But yeah, that last week for us was all freakin rogue teams. Like all the time. So many matchups, it was brutal. So yeah, I kinda know what you're going through because at the time I was just getting raped by rogues (picture a lock who at the time had spellstrike, some FSW, 10k health and 170 resil). We woulda finished so much higher if it weren't for that rogue buff, and the few times there wasn't an enemy rogue it was a warrior, who's no pushover either. We completely dominated every lock setup we came across peaking at over 1900 fighting full merciless locks, we rolled them everytime. But I guarantee rogues kept us 200pts lower then we could have been if we were fighting more favorable matchups (mages, warlocks, hell even warriors).
So I know the frustration of coming out to your complete counter-class everytime those gates open. Sometimes its best just to take a few days off, but we didn't really have that option with a week left in the season lol.
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Still haven't figured out hunter flares too well, I don't understand those stupid pets. Sometimes a hunter pops a flare and sits on it....fine. I go in to sap him from 10 yards, nice it didn't break stealth. Oh wait his pets attacking me, awesome. Gotta love stupid hunter pets...
Yeah I've been watchin their mana only a few tards not payin attention so far (what can u do) but I really just need to dig into arena. I have a hard time jumpin from pve runs (kara and gruul's for now) where u just sit on a boss and spam the same rotations over and over to having to use everybit of my ******* in a 1 minute stint. I'll defnitly be taking a week or two to just grind the hell out of pvp and try to get 1850 (crossing my fingers) I just need to finish getting enough for the swords for season 3 1st lol!
Yeah and bout those hunters Blizzard said they fixed all the glinches w/ those sob pets It bullhunker! I vanish but I'm still gettin the crap beat out of me all the time I really only use it as a hate reset agianst hunters to put it on the druid, I'll call it out and he'll switch to bear form it tends to work.
Still haven't figured out hunter flares too well, I don't understand those stupid pets. Sometimes a hunter pops a flare and sits on it....fine. I go in to sap him from 10 yards, nice it didn't break stealth. Oh wait his pets attacking me, awesome. Gotta love stupid hunter pets...
Yeah I've been watchin their mana only a few tards not payin attention so far (what can u do) but I really just need to dig into arena. I have a hard time jumpin from pve runs (kara and gruul's for now) where u just sit on a boss and spam the same rotations over and over to having to use everybit of my ******* in a 1 minute stint. I'll defnitly be taking a week or two to just grind the hell out of pvp and try to get 1850 (crossing my fingers) I just need to finish getting enough for the swords for season 3 1st lol!
Yeah and bout those hunters Blizzard said they fixed all the glinches w/ those sob pets It bullhunker! I vanish but I'm still gettin the crap beat out of me all the time I really only use it as a hate reset agianst hunters to put it on the druid, I'll call it out and he'll switch to bear form it tends to work.
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QUOTE: (cant figure out the quote box heh)
Neener neener.
PS: [ quote] [ /quote] without spaces.
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Neener neener.
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A true scholar and a gentleman many thanks...rofl!
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Yea. That's the way to beat them, and it's easy once you understand and can do it, but learning it, and getting your mind straight for it takes a lot of work.
Their partner always don't allow me to do so, where usually either rogue crip me, or warrior intercept me. Sometimes my mage partner got problem sheep the warrior too, keep getting immune, weird.
I really hate meeting druid team, it just make me impossible to climb up. :(
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