I'd like to learn how to tank as a druid bear. But not how to tank with a good group, I want to know the tricks to playing well even when you have a cruddy PuG where no one waits for you to actually hit something before attacking (or for you to gain any rage for that matter). They each attack a seperate mob. The rogue uses some sort of AoE attack and then things aggro off him and onto the healer. Someone gets bored and pulls mobs when I'm not looking. And so forth.
I can tank a single target or with a good group just fine (lacerate, mangle, lacerate). But I look really stupid with a bad group when the mobs run all over and finally I'm just like "***** it. I don't care anymore!"
As a tank, I tend to be given party leadership, so I'd like to know how to use it. What raid icons do you use. How do you use them (sap this one, freeze that one, pets off tank the other one, etc)? What instructions do you give the party beforehand? How do you gather up and regain aggro on mobs that are scattered around attacking other players?
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I don't lead a lot in instances often but here is what I have seen.
Marking:
Use whichever marks work/make sense to you. Let your group know what target they are responsible for. Ask if there are questions in advance and explain the kill order.
Making a macro you can spam with this info. is helpful and saves time.
An example of the common uses of the raid markers:
Skull = Main Tank
Moon = Sheep
Star = Sap
Square = Freeze trap
X = Off tank
Triangle = Cyclone
Kill Order: Skull, X, Square, triangle...
After explaining this to your group take the next few pulls slowly. This allows everyone to "sync up" and get a feel for how everyone is going to work together.
I find it helpful to be flexible. For example, If you have a healer in the mobs you are attacking, make sure that one is being sheeped/sapped.
Listen and respond to feed back from your group. They know what is and is not working for them.
Should things go bad or someone gets called to dinner, don't forget to repeat target/kill order info to the new member who replaces those who bail (Not that anyone will bail as I am sure you will PWN).
Doing so will save you from:
Freeze trap broken - "Oh sorry guys. My groups use Square for pet."
Note: I believe there are addons that will mark for you but I have no experience with them. Anyone else know what these addons do?
Happy Hunting!
Marking:
Use whichever marks work/make sense to you. Let your group know what target they are responsible for. Ask if there are questions in advance and explain the kill order.
Making a macro you can spam with this info. is helpful and saves time.
An example of the common uses of the raid markers:
Skull = Main Tank
Moon = Sheep
Star = Sap
Square = Freeze trap
X = Off tank
Triangle = Cyclone
Kill Order: Skull, X, Square, triangle...
After explaining this to your group take the next few pulls slowly. This allows everyone to "sync up" and get a feel for how everyone is going to work together.
I find it helpful to be flexible. For example, If you have a healer in the mobs you are attacking, make sure that one is being sheeped/sapped.
Listen and respond to feed back from your group. They know what is and is not working for them.
Should things go bad or someone gets called to dinner, don't forget to repeat target/kill order info to the new member who replaces those who bail (Not that anyone will bail as I am sure you will PWN).
Doing so will save you from:
Freeze trap broken - "Oh sorry guys. My groups use Square for pet."
Note: I believe there are addons that will mark for you but I have no experience with them. Anyone else know what these addons do?
Happy Hunting!
Scholar
24 posts
All good advice, but in my experience, most PuG's can't comprehend direction...so when your rogue/mage invetably uses a PbAoE, or stuns your rage battery before it even hits you: I offer a few more...
In a BAD group, always mark in caster form and switch to bear just before the pull (you DO have furor, right?)
If you're geared well enought to tank a boss in any given dungeon, you can survive atleast 3-4 trash mobs beating on you, always plan on having 2 mobs on you, and be ready to pick up a 3rd incase a CC fails.
Visualize 2 "areas" all CC except hunter traps should be in a CC area and your 2 targets should be about 10 yards away, use tab-lacerate and swipes to keep aggro on your lucky 2, and if a CC breaks, feral charge, maul and drag back to your Tanking area
If you're using a Hunter's traps as CC, mark that target 1st, if given 15-20 seconds before a pull, a decent hunter can keep a mob trapped indefinitely unless there is a resist, and if you're not able to pick up the mob's aggro, it's less than 10 seconds before the next trap can be placed.
If a DPS pulls aggro, try maul and mangle before using a growl CD...they wouldn't have the aggro if they knew their class, and are less priority...if you lose aggro to a healer, growl immediately...it was your fault, and unlike a rogue, you NEED heals.
In a BAD group, always mark in caster form and switch to bear just before the pull (you DO have furor, right?)
If you're geared well enought to tank a boss in any given dungeon, you can survive atleast 3-4 trash mobs beating on you, always plan on having 2 mobs on you, and be ready to pick up a 3rd incase a CC fails.
Visualize 2 "areas" all CC except hunter traps should be in a CC area and your 2 targets should be about 10 yards away, use tab-lacerate and swipes to keep aggro on your lucky 2, and if a CC breaks, feral charge, maul and drag back to your Tanking area
If you're using a Hunter's traps as CC, mark that target 1st, if given 15-20 seconds before a pull, a decent hunter can keep a mob trapped indefinitely unless there is a resist, and if you're not able to pick up the mob's aggro, it's less than 10 seconds before the next trap can be placed.
If a DPS pulls aggro, try maul and mangle before using a growl CD...they wouldn't have the aggro if they knew their class, and are less priority...if you lose aggro to a healer, growl immediately...it was your fault, and unlike a rogue, you NEED heals.
Greats replys. I will add a link to this thread over here:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=6;mid=119670821386514657;page=1#m119670821386514657
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=6;mid=119670821386514657;page=1#m119670821386514657
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Any advice on how to deal with casters that don't pull back and no one in the PUG has silence? I always have problems with that, I mark skull on the caster/healer mob and need to pull them back away from other mobs(patrol) and fairy fire them and try to run back so they have to follow. I would think that work but I tend to lose the other non-caster mobs to dps or the healer, or the dps'ers will start attacking the caster I'm trying to pull back and I'll lose aggro on them. Am I doing something wrong or is the dps'ers?
Also if I have a mage in the PUG would it a good idea to sheep the caster and pull the melee mobs way back so when the caster comes out he has to run to us?
Also if I have a mage in the PUG would it a good idea to sheep the caster and pull the melee mobs way back so when the caster comes out he has to run to us?
3 posts
First rule of instances don’t PUG.
Second rule of instances don’t PUG.
I guess if you have to PUG, communication is the key. Take a few minutes to explain the kill sequence and target marks. If someone makes a mistake, patiently explain again why the target is marked the way it is. If, they continuously make mistakes, kick them out or disband. It is not worth the time or repair bills to try to carry a dysfunctional pug through an instance.
Second rule of instances don’t PUG.
I guess if you have to PUG, communication is the key. Take a few minutes to explain the kill sequence and target marks. If someone makes a mistake, patiently explain again why the target is marked the way it is. If, they continuously make mistakes, kick them out or disband. It is not worth the time or repair bills to try to carry a dysfunctional pug through an instance.
Usually, sheep or sap the healer mob. If there is no healer, go for the caster. If there is no caster, go for the harder mob (if this is a trash pull).
I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* that freeze trap also don't allow the caster mob to actually cast.
If none of this is on your group, maybe you shouldn't be in this group, but perhaps bash the mob is the only option left (at least for a few seconds).
Edited, Dec 19th 2007 6:01pm by Brisin
I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* that freeze trap also don't allow the caster mob to actually cast.
If none of this is on your group, maybe you shouldn't be in this group, but perhaps bash the mob is the only option left (at least for a few seconds).
Edited, Dec 19th 2007 6:01pm by Brisin
Quote:
Any advice on how to deal with casters that don't pull back and no one in the PUG has silence?
Line of sight is your friend. Try and pull from near a corner (even a little outcrop from the wall is usually enough). FF then move around the corner and all the mobs should arrive about the same time instead of running backwards and having the caster lag behind the melee mobs.
Make sure nobody DPS's or heals until you have threat on all the non-cc's targets.
Scholar
22 posts
I'm only a beginner as a druid (my main is a priest), but here is a little trick I've seen others use: mark up the first kill LAST. Some people attack as soon as they see the skull, so put that up as the last mark, after you've marked up the others and explained the meaning of the symbols.
Oh, and I've been in a group with a great leader once, who changed the marks when one target went down. When we killed the skull, she transferred the skull mark to the next target to be killed. That was great, because that way there could be no confusion ("Oops, square was next? I thought it was the moon!").
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 11:48am by Ault
Oh, and I've been in a group with a great leader once, who changed the marks when one target went down. When we killed the skull, she transferred the skull mark to the next target to be killed. That was great, because that way there could be no confusion ("Oops, square was next? I thought it was the moon!").
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 11:48am by Ault
RareBeast wrote:
Quote:
Any advice on how to deal with casters that don't pull back and no one in the PUG has silence?
Make sure nobody DPS's or heals until you have threat on all the non-cc's targets.
Right there is where most PUG's fail,in my experience :D
I do FF,start bailing for nearest cover...turn around,and see my castermob being hit from all sides by the "helpful" dps groupmembers :D
Usually results in a wipe every time :D
If you need to tank multiple targets with a group I find it very effective to cast regrowth and rejuv on myself before the pull. That takes the healing pressure off the healer, so he is less likely to pull agro with overhealing you and he has more time to heal any dps who overagro. In the pull i use moonfire on X run back and moonfire skull. That way i have initial agro on both my targets and my last target is the nuke target. In case of casters use line of sight to make them run to you as previously mentioned. I have furor ofcourse and i use the improved enrage so i immediately have 20 rage and more ticking from the start of the fight. Remember that rage gains generate agro for you. Also demo roar is good to use for a bit of initial agro on mobs with no risk of breaking CC. If we have a mob marked for hunter trap, i usually give it a single hit. Just to make sure that if the hunter fails to pull it, it will stick on me and not the healer. It makes it more difficult for the hunter to pull it off me, but i can live with that. At least i know when the mob leaves me, that it's been pulled off and not that it just lost interrest in me and decided to taste the healer.
When deciding targets in an unknown instance with a pug here a few pointers. If it has a mana bar it should be either burned down fast or crowd controlled. Any ranged mobs are good candidates for sheep and any mellee mobs are perfect candidates for traps. Don't give a ranged mod or caster mob as trap target. Don't assign sap target in the middle of a bunch of mobs. Give sap target to nearest mobs regardless of what it is. If you have a pull with only to mellee targets, be aware that they may be immune to CC and be ready to grab both.
Other than that just do as others have already said: Announce targets before the first pull.
Last but not least: If someone simply does not understand the message and continue to **** up... replace him! It's better to go with 4 than with a member who ninja pulls, overagroes and otherwise ***** up
When deciding targets in an unknown instance with a pug here a few pointers. If it has a mana bar it should be either burned down fast or crowd controlled. Any ranged mobs are good candidates for sheep and any mellee mobs are perfect candidates for traps. Don't give a ranged mod or caster mob as trap target. Don't assign sap target in the middle of a bunch of mobs. Give sap target to nearest mobs regardless of what it is. If you have a pull with only to mellee targets, be aware that they may be immune to CC and be ready to grab both.
Other than that just do as others have already said: Announce targets before the first pull.
Last but not least: If someone simply does not understand the message and continue to **** up... replace him! It's better to go with 4 than with a member who ninja pulls, overagroes and otherwise ***** up
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Mages are notorious for hitting their 'panic buttonz' when I tank..
For frick's sake mages.. would you please stop frost nova'ing all over the CC?
Especially when it's one of those creatures with split threat (ie charge random party members, turn direction and spit, etc)..
*most* people know well enough to let me re-acquire aggro simply by stop action and wait. Some classes can look out for themselves, but situational awareness is a MUST!
Lastly, me reason for ******** at mages is mostly positioning. I don't care if it's a trash mob or a boss, I want it's back exposed, and my back against a wall. Too many mobs knockback / uppercut. When you frost nova my target's in the center of the floor.. it really really fricks up positioning. Use your dadgum mana shield, stand still, and take it like a squishy! That is all.
For frick's sake mages.. would you please stop frost nova'ing all over the CC?
Especially when it's one of those creatures with split threat (ie charge random party members, turn direction and spit, etc)..
*most* people know well enough to let me re-acquire aggro simply by stop action and wait. Some classes can look out for themselves, but situational awareness is a MUST!
Lastly, me reason for ******** at mages is mostly positioning. I don't care if it's a trash mob or a boss, I want it's back exposed, and my back against a wall. Too many mobs knockback / uppercut. When you frost nova my target's in the center of the floor.. it really really fricks up positioning. Use your dadgum mana shield, stand still, and take it like a squishy! That is all.
last run I had a arms warrior who for some odd reason didn't want to tank but wanted to pull treat for rage. didn't want to debuff yell didn't want to t-clap but kept keeping close to the cc targets and tagging them with his random aoe. sad thing was he was doing 40% of the damage and had decent survivability in arena gear.
those kinds of people I'll pull the mobs away from him as much and I am able and keep them moving around him so he keeps having to spin his character to hit them. It's just lucky it was a normal run for rep or it'd be dps down + 5 mobs on tank /healer.
those kinds of people I'll pull the mobs away from him as much and I am able and keep them moving around him so he keeps having to spin his character to hit them. It's just lucky it was a normal run for rep or it'd be dps down + 5 mobs on tank /healer.
DKDruid wrote:
If you need to tank multiple targets with a group I find it very effective to cast regrowth and rejuv on myself before the pull.
Gives the healer a couple seconds before they have to start their heal, AND generates aggro on you from the HoT ticks.
Quote:
Make sure nobody DPS's or heals until you have threat on all the non-cc's targets.
Ha ha. You say that like it's so easy. Getting people to let you get some threat first is the single hardest part about tanking a PUG. There's always someone who goes off and does their own thing ******** you up.
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