Thanks for the amazing information on warlock stats and ways to do better. I am only a 60 lock with "ok" gear and I started down the demonology path to get a FellGuard which seems to be so much better than a VW. I then spent the rest of my talent points in affliction. The fellguard tank has served me well in the lower levels while I solo'd (with tank). Is it not reccommended to use valuable talent points for a tank at the higher levels of the game? I often wonder if I would be better off trading in the FG Tank for affliction or Destruction.
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Why not demonology?Follow
Demo and FG is perfectly viable in most cases. If not all, really.
I did the same. FG with the rest in Aff. Worked fine right up to and beyond 70.
I did the same. FG with the rest in Aff. Worked fine right up to and beyond 70.
It can be done, and done well if you know how to properly control your pet. Some of the more "hardcore" raiders will tell you it's not optimal, and some people may even call you a Felnoob, but hey, as long as you take the time to gear it right and learn to play it right, it can be just as viable a spec, and put out good damage.
I to have a level 60 demonology lock with "ok" gear. My Felguard is almost out all the time and I do just fine. When I do instances, usually with my guild, I get no complaints when using the Felgaurd. Only once have I ever been asked to use the Imp instead, which I had no problem using.
As long as you get the job done and have fun doing it, I wouldn't worry much about what others say.
As long as you get the job done and have fun doing it, I wouldn't worry much about what others say.
For most things Demonology Warlocks are equal if not better then Affliction or Destruction. Where Demon gets most of its flack is in the raiding scene. Demon locks rely on their Felguard for a nice chunk of their damage; I’d say 15% or so comes from the Felguard. And most people will tell you that there are some raid bosses that make keeping your Felguard alive almost impossible which then gimps your damage, while in the same fight affliction and destruction are performing at full speed since they don’t rely on a pet.
For questing and leveling Demon is more then fine. For raiding Kara demon works well because only a few bosses make it hard to keep Felguard alive. When you graduate to 25 man raids like gruul/mag/TK/SSC it will be tough to stay Demon and still be competitive on damage with other similar geared classes or even affliction locks.
If you’re raiding as Demon and you’re consistently on the bottom of the damage meters it may be time to think about changing to Affliction. I leveled and raided Kara as Demon so I know how fun raiding as demon can be but when you get into the 25 mans you’ll see a huge boost in dps from affliction.
For questing and leveling Demon is more then fine. For raiding Kara demon works well because only a few bosses make it hard to keep Felguard alive. When you graduate to 25 man raids like gruul/mag/TK/SSC it will be tough to stay Demon and still be competitive on damage with other similar geared classes or even affliction locks.
If you’re raiding as Demon and you’re consistently on the bottom of the damage meters it may be time to think about changing to Affliction. I leveled and raided Kara as Demon so I know how fun raiding as demon can be but when you get into the 25 mans you’ll see a huge boost in dps from affliction.
I've been raiding SSC & TK with a 6/44/11 Fel Guard spec. (cleared both instances).
Not as effective on Al'ar and lurker (I'm on tanking duty, don't use him on Leo & Kael), but on the rest of the fights he's really good and I'm on top of the dmg meter.
We have an equally geared affliction lock who I consider better than me at affliction, but I outdps him with my demo spec.
I have the t5 setbonus and void star talisman btw.
One of (if not THE) main arguments against the Fel Guard spec is that if he dies then you will lose not only casting time when bringing him back, but for the rest of the fight you'll lose dps because he's no longer raid buffed.
This is a valid point and your major weakness. If you can't keep him alive then the spec fails compared to affl or destr.
Blizzard really need to give us a HoT instead of health funnel, or give it to us as a new talent. That would make demo spec *much* more viable, because truth be told, even with the trinket and t5 bonus he's just too fragile and hard to protect sometimes.
Another weakness is that he's a pet and not fully under your control, he can bug out. It's just happened a couple of times for me but it's very disturbing when it does happben.
It's a very fun spec to raid with though and I enjoy it a lot more than affliction, but now I've just gotten enough gear that I'm going to try out a 0/21/40 build.
Don't know if I'll stick to it or if I'll end up going back to demo.
Not as effective on Al'ar and lurker (I'm on tanking duty, don't use him on Leo & Kael), but on the rest of the fights he's really good and I'm on top of the dmg meter.
We have an equally geared affliction lock who I consider better than me at affliction, but I outdps him with my demo spec.
I have the t5 setbonus and void star talisman btw.
One of (if not THE) main arguments against the Fel Guard spec is that if he dies then you will lose not only casting time when bringing him back, but for the rest of the fight you'll lose dps because he's no longer raid buffed.
This is a valid point and your major weakness. If you can't keep him alive then the spec fails compared to affl or destr.
Blizzard really need to give us a HoT instead of health funnel, or give it to us as a new talent. That would make demo spec *much* more viable, because truth be told, even with the trinket and t5 bonus he's just too fragile and hard to protect sometimes.
Another weakness is that he's a pet and not fully under your control, he can bug out. It's just happened a couple of times for me but it's very disturbing when it does happben.
It's a very fun spec to raid with though and I enjoy it a lot more than affliction, but now I've just gotten enough gear that I'm going to try out a 0/21/40 build.
Don't know if I'll stick to it or if I'll end up going back to demo.
I been Demonology for the whole game, and it's worked fine so far. Would not change spec, because I like the special defenses and bonus damage.
My talents are allocated as 18/43/0. I use Drain Life a lot, and the instant-cast Corruption is vital for battlegrounds, so part Affliction is useful for my play style.
The problem with Demonology is that spells dont hit as hard, as in the case of the other two talent trees. Good gear and/or a good team can counter that. One of the better things about it, is that spells against you tend to have a minimal effect; I enjoy plowing down mages and priests as a result :)
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 1:22pm by sederix
My talents are allocated as 18/43/0. I use Drain Life a lot, and the instant-cast Corruption is vital for battlegrounds, so part Affliction is useful for my play style.
The problem with Demonology is that spells dont hit as hard, as in the case of the other two talent trees. Good gear and/or a good team can counter that. One of the better things about it, is that spells against you tend to have a minimal effect; I enjoy plowing down mages and priests as a result :)
Edited, Dec 20th 2007 1:22pm by sederix
Lathais wrote:
It can be done, and done well if you know how to properly control your pet.
Quote:
as long as you take the time to gear it right and learn to play it right, it can be just as viable a spec, and put out good damage.
If you learn to play it right you might be one of the 10% or even less demo locks (I would say 1% of those under long 70).
Personally I got sick of every incapable lock on my server running around with felguard, I respecced to *petless* lock.
Edited, Dec 21st 2007 1:41pm by Sethy
As other people have mentioned, as a raid spec Demo works pretty well especially once you get a bit of Tier 5 and the Void Star Talisman. It starts to degrade slightly in T6 instances and is completely worthless in only two hard Hyjal fights (Azgalor and Archimonde) and the hard two Black Temple fights (Council and Illidan).
It's very well suited to SSC/TK, though.
It's very well suited to SSC/TK, though.
You do have damage, but expect to be at the bottom, or if your really lucky, midpack in the DPS meter. During raids, you can't use your felgaurd because one cleave from a boss will easily kill him, not to mention the healer will need to work overtime.
The dps can't compare to a afflict or destro build either, since demo dps scales horribly with gear.
The dps can't compare to a afflict or destro build either, since demo dps scales horribly with gear.
A bit OT, but reading most of the sigs in this thread (excepting those which just display characters) is frickin hillarious. Particularly RPZip, Inoperante, Sethy, and underdoggy.
for raiding purposes, you can actually use your imp, phase him in for buffs, and use him as your stat hog for your bonus spell damage in raiding if you know your pet may eat dirt. Imps will always give you more stats than a felguard simply because of the blood pact (which i hope you have improved) and if the boss is a melee killer but a ranged saver you can even have your imp attack alongside you.
Why demonology?
exactly. why not. ;)
exactly. why not. ;)
Quote:
You do have damage, but expect to be at the bottom, or if your really lucky, midpack in the DPS meter. During raids, you can't use your felgaurd because one cleave from a boss will easily kill him, not to mention the healer will need to work overtime.
Not sure about you, but I am usually at the top of the damage meter; and within the top 5 for my side in the Battlegrounds (if I am not defending, and get in when the BG starts, of course). The only time I am typically out-damaged is when there is a mage or other warlock; and there are times were we compete for the top position. I cant out DPS a mage... but I can outlive them :).
Turn off Cleave when you are in a group. If you dont want your felguard to die so fast, then turn of his taunt ability, too. Also, his mana will not go down so fast when at least one ability is always off.
Edited, Jan 3rd 2008 5:04pm by sederix
Away from a raid situation, i would highly recommend FG for PvP. Played correctly an oppenent can be completely incapacitated while you do your thing. When confronted with more than one opponent, FG damage coupled with DoT's can seriously worry a clothie while you attempt to remove others from the fight.
The FG's ability to intercept gives ample time to charge an immolate and CoA and Imp. Corruption are insta cast. Deathcoil is waiting to be used, and shadowburn gives your offensive an extra kick. If your target lives through this onslaught, fear him and kite.
FG also brings great damage mitigation. 20% damage passed to your FG helps a lock live through rogues stuns and warriors crits. On top of this he also gives 35 resistance to all schools of magic.
The key to the FG spec is stamina. The outlandish amounts of stamina used in a good felguard build help you and him live longer. AND this stamina (plus his intellect divided by something, not sure on-the-spot) add to your spell damage, meaning your spell damage can often beat affliction and destruction spec's spell damage. AND this spell damage increases your pets attack power, and dont forget the (maximum) 50% increase in the FG damage through demonic frenzy.
All of this can be applied to PvE, especially in normal instances. The FG is an excellent OT (although lacking the HoT ability of a hunters pet), and can be re-summoned in 0.5 secs (this ability can also be considered a form of lock bubble, i.e summoning big blue to sac and flee)
The FG loses some of his value in heroics, mainly the ability to OT. But his damage can never be denied. As has been stated, just keep him alive.
The FG's ability to intercept gives ample time to charge an immolate and CoA and Imp. Corruption are insta cast. Deathcoil is waiting to be used, and shadowburn gives your offensive an extra kick. If your target lives through this onslaught, fear him and kite.
FG also brings great damage mitigation. 20% damage passed to your FG helps a lock live through rogues stuns and warriors crits. On top of this he also gives 35 resistance to all schools of magic.
The key to the FG spec is stamina. The outlandish amounts of stamina used in a good felguard build help you and him live longer. AND this stamina (plus his intellect divided by something, not sure on-the-spot) add to your spell damage, meaning your spell damage can often beat affliction and destruction spec's spell damage. AND this spell damage increases your pets attack power, and dont forget the (maximum) 50% increase in the FG damage through demonic frenzy.
All of this can be applied to PvE, especially in normal instances. The FG is an excellent OT (although lacking the HoT ability of a hunters pet), and can be re-summoned in 0.5 secs (this ability can also be considered a form of lock bubble, i.e summoning big blue to sac and flee)
The FG loses some of his value in heroics, mainly the ability to OT. But his damage can never be denied. As has been stated, just keep him alive.
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