Having been on this board for awhile I know that +hit is very important. I've seen less discussion regarding the importance or non-importance of spell penetration. It would seem from the description "reduces resistance to your spells" that it would be as important as Spell Hit. I am correct on that or is there something I'm missing?
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27dorei&n=Varilhigh
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Spell Penetration vs. Spell HitFollow
I have always understood that spell penetration is PVP based, while spell hit is PVE based.
If you notice, most posts that talk about spell hit, are about maximizing/increasing your DPS in raids or instances.
Now, I do not know any kind of numbers to spout off about spell penetration, how it works etc, and I dont know if it works in pve or not.
If you notice, most posts that talk about spell hit, are about maximizing/increasing your DPS in raids or instances.
Now, I do not know any kind of numbers to spout off about spell penetration, how it works etc, and I dont know if it works in pve or not.
Yes spell penetration is more usefull in pvp then pvp but only to a certain extent...
In pvp you have a higher chance of hitting other people then pve encounters thus less spell hit is needed from the start.
Spell penetration unlike spell hit decreaces resistance but does not decreace it below 0 so after a bit of it it is rendered useless.
Depending on circumstances its up to you to decide how much spell penetration you want
10 takes out racial resists
10-30 most resist gear
20-40 mages using mage armor and resist gear
50-75 pots and/or pala auras if im not mistaken
I'm probably not 100% correct but i think thats how it goes...
(i got my info from a page on WoWWiki)
In pvp you have a higher chance of hitting other people then pve encounters thus less spell hit is needed from the start.
Spell penetration unlike spell hit decreaces resistance but does not decreace it below 0 so after a bit of it it is rendered useless.
Depending on circumstances its up to you to decide how much spell penetration you want
10 takes out racial resists
10-30 most resist gear
20-40 mages using mage armor and resist gear
50-75 pots and/or pala auras if im not mistaken
I'm probably not 100% correct but i think thats how it goes...
(i got my info from a page on WoWWiki)
Scholar
40 posts
We have an annoying number to get if we are fighting Locks with the right spec and with a Fellpuppy out (99,9% of the PvP Locks). And some buffs like Mark of the Wild.
Penetration is an equal trade off. If you have 10 Penetration and you enemy has 10 Resistance, then you will hit by your normal dmg. Basicaly, if you have more Penetration than you oponent has on Resistance, you will hit by your normal dmg. If you have less Penetration than your oponent has on Resistance, your dmg will decrease (try to AE the Arcane mobs before Curator and you will note that your Arcane dmg is realy gimped there, as an example).
To simplify things, some people like to say that the "Resist" you see from your target when your spell don´t dmg someone can be by your lack of Spell Hit or Spell Penetration. People consider the Resist (due to lack of Spell Hit) as the equivalent of "miss" from the melees attacks while the Resist (due to lack of Penetration) as the equivalent of the "block" from the melees.
Hope I could help
[ ]'s
Penetration is an equal trade off. If you have 10 Penetration and you enemy has 10 Resistance, then you will hit by your normal dmg. Basicaly, if you have more Penetration than you oponent has on Resistance, you will hit by your normal dmg. If you have less Penetration than your oponent has on Resistance, your dmg will decrease (try to AE the Arcane mobs before Curator and you will note that your Arcane dmg is realy gimped there, as an example).
To simplify things, some people like to say that the "Resist" you see from your target when your spell don´t dmg someone can be by your lack of Spell Hit or Spell Penetration. People consider the Resist (due to lack of Spell Hit) as the equivalent of "miss" from the melees attacks while the Resist (due to lack of Penetration) as the equivalent of the "block" from the melees.
Hope I could help
[ ]'s
penetration is virtually worthless in every aspect of the game. It's best to just ignore it completely, really.
Penetration is for PvP, Spell Hit for PvE.
There are so few mobs in PvE that need spell penetration that its not at all practical to have it. The 10 SP you have from Arcane Subtlety is enough, if you get to an encounter which requires more (one or 2 bosses and one or 2 types of trash in 25 man raids), you can wear a piece with more spell penetration for just that encounter.
There are so few mobs in PvE that need spell penetration that its not at all practical to have it. The 10 SP you have from Arcane Subtlety is enough, if you get to an encounter which requires more (one or 2 bosses and one or 2 types of trash in 25 man raids), you can wear a piece with more spell penetration for just that encounter.
Quote:
Depending on circumstances its up to you to decide how much spell penetration you want
10 takes out racial resists
10-30 most resist gear
20-40 mages using mage armor and resist gear
50-75 pots and/or pala auras if im not mistaken
10 takes out racial resists
10-30 most resist gear
20-40 mages using mage armor and resist gear
50-75 pots and/or pala auras if im not mistaken
Excellent! Thank you for putting it in terms my dense head can properly comprehend.
No problemo... im probably a bit off but its close
they affect two different mechanics.
spell hit counters resists which are level-bassed. these are "misses" where your spell does not hit the target. in pvp, you only need 3%. in pve, you need as much as 16% including talents.
spell penetration counters resistances to schools of magic (fire resistance for example). a spell can be resisted 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%. a 100% resist will look the same as a level-based resist.
in pvp, most people will have small amounts of resistances (pala aura is 60 to one school, mage armor is 18 to all, MotW is 25 to all). nowadays, most gear has no resistances at all, except full resist gear for some pve encounters which people will not wear in pvp because it gimps other stats too much.
conclusion:
in pve, most mobs have little to no school resistances. some have immunities, but these cannot be countered with spell penetration (like al'ar's fire immunity). in a raid you will have curse of elements/shadows which reduces resistances by 88! this is sufficient.
i do suggest getting 20 spell penetration enchanted on your cloak for a pve mage, as there is nothing else useful. -2% threat is crap, you have invisibility. apart from that, you can ignore spell penetration.
there's 20 spell penetration on the t4 robe, but i don't really know why.
in pvp, people have small resistances, but nothing to worry too much about. you could also get the 20 spell pene on your cloak.
Edited, Dec 19th 2007 11:39am by Turicus
spell hit counters resists which are level-bassed. these are "misses" where your spell does not hit the target. in pvp, you only need 3%. in pve, you need as much as 16% including talents.
spell penetration counters resistances to schools of magic (fire resistance for example). a spell can be resisted 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%. a 100% resist will look the same as a level-based resist.
in pvp, most people will have small amounts of resistances (pala aura is 60 to one school, mage armor is 18 to all, MotW is 25 to all). nowadays, most gear has no resistances at all, except full resist gear for some pve encounters which people will not wear in pvp because it gimps other stats too much.
conclusion:
in pve, most mobs have little to no school resistances. some have immunities, but these cannot be countered with spell penetration (like al'ar's fire immunity). in a raid you will have curse of elements/shadows which reduces resistances by 88! this is sufficient.
i do suggest getting 20 spell penetration enchanted on your cloak for a pve mage, as there is nothing else useful. -2% threat is crap, you have invisibility. apart from that, you can ignore spell penetration.
there's 20 spell penetration on the t4 robe, but i don't really know why.
in pvp, people have small resistances, but nothing to worry too much about. you could also get the 20 spell pene on your cloak.
Edited, Dec 19th 2007 11:39am by Turicus
Scholar
28 posts
Or you can have a Rune of Perfection that you can swap into your trinket if your damage is being gimped by resistance.
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