Forget Marks, I'm going back to BM!Follow

Well, after messing about with my spec, I am really not overly impressed with the MM build. The top tier talent for MM, Silencing shot really does not blow me away as an uber-talent when compared to how good Beast Within is. I would personally rather have my 3 minute CD "instant death" button, than a shot that I use very sparingly.

I was impressed by the MM aimed shot damage, but even after a huge aimed crit, I would always pull aggro off my pet and have the pain in the *** of having to run and trap. For PvP, aimed shot is good, but how often does your opponent let you sit there for 3 seconds lining up your shot?

In WSG I got aimed shots off like crazy. It's incredibly easy. Also figure Aimed is not good for shot rotations...it pulls aggro like crazy and actually drops your DPS. But it is good for MD pulls, for breaking traps and burst damage, for the debuff in PvP, and it it's necessary in any DPS build if you want Mortal Shots.

BW is a 2-minute CD.

And marks is considered the weakest PvE build by most of us in here.

I don't necessarily agree that the build you posted is the "standard" 41/20/0. Check previous posts on builds as far as "maximizing" your DPS as a BM Hunter.

I lol'ed.

But yeah, that 41/20 super DPS build isn't the super DPS build. It's a nice solo grind build, though. That pet will never die.

After reading this post and constantly hearing about how BM pwns, I respec'd BM to give it a go (formerly a MM/SV. build)... After about 10 rounds of PvP, 4 rounds of Arena and a couple heroic runs, I have to say that so far, I'm just not that impressed. My damage is waaaay down thus far and trapping has become really interesting to say the least. Kinda feel a little funky.

I went with this perticular spec based on the advice of guildies and also from the stickys posted here... The "Pure DPS" spec. as I was told... frankly; I'm just not seeing it. I have asked about shot rotations from other BM hunters and so far the only answers I have gotten is this for PvE "Auto, steady, auto, steady, thats it! Your damage is gonna rock!"... and "auto, steady, auto and whatever else in between for PvP. Dude, your gonna be raping!" for PvP... Please tell me there is more.

I am not gonna give it up just yet though. I'd like to reach the euphoria that, appearently, BM has to offer. I'm going into hit up VR, Gruul and SSC tomorow and maybe I will get a better picture of what this spec is all about.

To note; I mostly raid and PvP casually. Looking for more DPS in raid/instance situations... if anyone has any shot rotation tips or tricks of the BM trade, please feel free to post it here. I'll be back to check before raid time... Peep the gear and spec if you feel frisky as it's in my sig.

So after reading this, I went to the dark side, and changed out my hybrid SV/MM into BM.

My build before: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZqVoRizZIh0kpsMuVuh


My build now: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cAbM0xgRVuVoVV0RZMh0o


All I can say is...wow. I really have to take back all the BM bashing I did. I guess since i've never seen a good BM in action, I always thought they...well sucked bad. Just PVP alone I saw a Major difference. With the hybrid build before, although I survived long enough, I would always get jumped or "tanked" long enough for help to come and kill me. With the build I have now, I kill the help when they arrive. That's right, no close call kill for them, it was straight murder.

My before build pvp kill/deaths: 15 kills 5 deaths (peronsal best) (AB)

pvp kill/deaths now: 24 kills 3 deaths. (AB)


Now, I love my old build. It has gotten me out of alot of siuations. and I'm gonna miss my improved traps, but when you crank out insane dps, there's really no need for improved traps. Farewell SV hunters, I've been inticed by the darkness and I've come to imbrace it.

Edit: I'm still a very firm believer that it takes skill and timing to make any build shine. I will admit that i've gotten alot more ppl wanting me to be on thier arena team after the spec.

Edited, Dec 18th 2007 10:15am by bravefenceralucard

The shot rotation I use is this: Aimed, Arc, AS, MS, AS, SS, AS, Sting, AS


I know alot of people don't use aimed shot due to the reset, but when I stick to this rotation, my Arc shot is ready just when i'm done with my aimed.


Aimed = aimed shot
Arc = Arcane shot
AS = Auto shot
SS = Steady shot

Also (to sell the use of aimed shot) alot of people tend to forget that the 3 sec shot gets reduced when added haste effects are in play (when using rapid fire, aimed shot time goes down to 1.5 secs).

Panteleone, I really and truly understand you. That's why I went SV/MM hybrid before i changed to BM. It takes alot of skills to pull SV spec off and anyone that did spec SV and was on the top of the dps chart should be called uber...

But the bottom line is that BMs are nucking futs atm. Unless they put something in the SV tree that would make Firing an Aimed shot worthwhile (besides thrill of the hunt) in a PvE situation we cannot match a BM hunter. We can outdo a MM hunter, and some might not agree with me, but it's very possible. BMs just put too much dmg down. Even with our insane crits. My guild was about to put me on ignore cus i was crying that i wouldn't be able to 3.6k aimed shot crits anymore with a BM build.

I couldn't completely go 41/20 when I respeced either...just didn't have it in me. I love hawk eye too much.

So Hat's off SV hunters. When they make aimed shot hunter friendly, I guess i'll return.

I must say, after switching from BM to SV, a lot of my mana management problems vanished.

Actually its not BW thats so good, its Serpent's Swiftness.

I think it is a fantastic talent. But again, the synergy with talents like Go for the throat and Bestial discipline make it so much better. In fact, if you are going high in the BM tree, Serpent's swiftness is a must have talent to crank out the DPS.

For PvE, the choice is pretty easy. We already walk such a fine hate line it seems obvious that if you go nutty buffing your DPS, you're going to be your own worst enemy, so buff your tank to hold that hate. Honestly, if you're not able to go all-out, who cares if you could potentially do even double the dps???

For PvP the choices are closer because threat doesn't really exist, (at least not as a stat to be manipulated; ask rogues and warlocks if threat exists in pvp), so boosting your pet's hate is not important. However, look! Shinies! BM still gets some nasty PvP talents. Beast within is nasty, 20% speed increase is nasty, but honestly intimidate is probably my favorite. Nothing janks up that fleeing mage's day like being stunned from that annoying thing eating your face.

Honestly though, I think they could fix this in a simple way: Give 'master marksman' a threat reduction. You'd be able to boost DPS with MM and actually be able to use it in PvE. Simple fix. Would be powerful in raiding too.

I'm confused. Is this an official talent build?

5/5 Efficiency for PvP?
1/3 Improved Wing Clip?
2/2 Spirit Bond?
0/2 Improved Mend Pet?

With 12,000 health, you'll get back 120 health every 5 seconds with max Spirit Bond. A few months back everyone was swearing to Improved Mend Pet instead. The cleanse effect of Mend Pet is said to be even more valuable now that Mend Pet is a fire and forget spell. Just use Rank 1 and watch your pet dispel snares like a Paladin.

1/3 Improved Wing Clip gives you a 7% chance to snare your target with the attack. The talent was bad enough maxed out, in my opinion. I'd rather put some points in Savage Strikes for when you get personal with those Rogues or whatnot. Savage Strikes used to be a core talent for PvP builds as well, but I've been gone for half a year, so what do I know. Maybe things have changed with the nutty crit ratings people have these days.

The Efficiency talent, well, I think it's kind of meh. 10% cost reduction on all shots. Sounds pretty neat, but not compared to what you're losing out on, OR, when you go into the math. Most of the Hunter spells/shots have fixed mana cost values. No percentage of mana or anything. Highest rank of Aimed Shot costs 350 mana. Efficiency takes away 35 mana, making it 315. Wow. And you missed out on Improved Hunter's Mark or Improved Concussive Shot instead.

I personally love Improved Hunter's Mark, and I'm sure the rest of my group does. When stacked out the Mark adds 440 ranged attack power. With Improved Hunter's Mark, that's 440 melee attack power as well. Holy oh my god.

But again, maybe things have changed. Just seems like a kind of bad build for a PvP BM Hunter.

Personally I'd go with this instead.

Maybe move the two points from Rapid Killing or Go for the Throat into Catlike Reflexes to max it out, but I don't know.