This may seem like a very silly question for the sake of being a question rather than any functional purpose, and quite frankly, it is.
Is there a shaman AoE damage cap for Fire Nova totem and Magma totem?
If no one knows, I would guess it's time for me to pull out an elemental shaman on the PTR and hope I can pull the entire RFC without killing many until Totemtime.
I wish Earthbind didn't have so long a cooldown now.
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Shaman AoE Damage CapFollow
No, there is no cap in the way you mean.
The fire nova totem and magma totem will hit every mob in range.
I've actually seen one hitting about 20 mobs at once.
The fire nova totem and magma totem will hit every mob in range.
I've actually seen one hitting about 20 mobs at once.
Raglu wrote:
I wish Earthbind didn't have so long a cooldown now.
You could always use Stoneclaw when Earthbind is on cooldown, max rank ought to be able to hold a lot for the full duration.
i made 530g from farming feet of the lynx in the stocks... all i had to do was aggro the entire instance, pop gift of the naaru, drop stone claw and magma totem. then just spam heals on myself.
...you guys don't know what I'm talking about.
AoE Attacks generally have a maximum amount of damage they can do total.
Imagine an AoE spell that does 500 damage per target and costs 500 mana.
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
With a 500 mana spell, you could do 500 damage to 50 mobs, becoming 25000 damage.
If I could do 25000 damage for only 500 mana, that'd be crazy-awesome. I'd farm every single low-level instance know.
Alas, though, there is a damage cap for AoE attacks.
That hypothetical spell I made up now has a damage cap of 10000.
If I hit one enemy with that spell, I'd do 500 damage to 1 target for a total of 500 damage.
If I hit two enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 2 targets for a total of 1000 damage.
If I hit seven enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 7 targets for a total of 3500 damage.
If I hit nineteen enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 19 targets for a total of 9500 damage.
If I hit twenty enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 20 targets for a total of 10000 damage. This is the damage cap.
If I hit twenty-one enemies, I'd do 476-477 damage to 21 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
If I hit forty enemies, I'd do 250 damage to 40 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
I think that should explain how an AoE Damage Cap works.
That being said, I did some testing with an enhancement shaman in the PTRs over in RFC. The damage cap after three tests for the highest rank of Magma Totem is 1550~ per tick. The damage cap after six tests for the highest rank of Fire Nova Totem is 9980~.
AoE Attacks generally have a maximum amount of damage they can do total.
Imagine an AoE spell that does 500 damage per target and costs 500 mana.
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
With a 500 mana spell, you could do 500 damage to 50 mobs, becoming 25000 damage.
If I could do 25000 damage for only 500 mana, that'd be crazy-awesome. I'd farm every single low-level instance know.
Alas, though, there is a damage cap for AoE attacks.
That hypothetical spell I made up now has a damage cap of 10000.
If I hit one enemy with that spell, I'd do 500 damage to 1 target for a total of 500 damage.
If I hit two enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 2 targets for a total of 1000 damage.
If I hit seven enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 7 targets for a total of 3500 damage.
If I hit nineteen enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 19 targets for a total of 9500 damage.
If I hit twenty enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 20 targets for a total of 10000 damage. This is the damage cap.
If I hit twenty-one enemies, I'd do 476-477 damage to 21 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
If I hit forty enemies, I'd do 250 damage to 40 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
I think that should explain how an AoE Damage Cap works.
That being said, I did some testing with an enhancement shaman in the PTRs over in RFC. The damage cap after three tests for the highest rank of Magma Totem is 1550~ per tick. The damage cap after six tests for the highest rank of Fire Nova Totem is 9980~.
ahh, i think i know what you're meaning... but aoe also doesn't work that way.
totems are no exception either, with more mobs comes more penalties, and i'm not entirely sure the formula but i bet the mage section has it figured out and it'd match you perfectly on the details, but basically after 10+ mobs, your spell damage is severely cut off and doesn't do max damage, every 10+ in addition to that severs it even more, i think it's something like 20% max (so 20 mobs you'd do uhh.. 64% -ish)
i will have to say that 500mana for 500 damage isn't too far off from blizzard, a frost mages main aoe used (if improved) (and to those about to correct me, i haven't forgotten arcane explosion or the fire ones, i'm just saying blizzard is the MOST used) which i think mine at rank 2? 3?... was 400-something damage and cost like 750 mana?
as for a damage cap, your ptr won't be the best you can get with all the gear that's coming out in Outlands (since they give you preset epics but not gear that matches personal preferences) and can continue to get higher, but as far as a cap goes, you'll have to experiment with the totems with different things. the ending formula will have a base on your total spell damage bonus though, still.
totems are no exception either, with more mobs comes more penalties, and i'm not entirely sure the formula but i bet the mage section has it figured out and it'd match you perfectly on the details, but basically after 10+ mobs, your spell damage is severely cut off and doesn't do max damage, every 10+ in addition to that severs it even more, i think it's something like 20% max (so 20 mobs you'd do uhh.. 64% -ish)
Quote:
Imagine an AoE spell that does 500 damage per target and costs 500 mana.
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
i will have to say that 500mana for 500 damage isn't too far off from blizzard, a frost mages main aoe used (if improved) (and to those about to correct me, i haven't forgotten arcane explosion or the fire ones, i'm just saying blizzard is the MOST used) which i think mine at rank 2? 3?... was 400-something damage and cost like 750 mana?
as for a damage cap, your ptr won't be the best you can get with all the gear that's coming out in Outlands (since they give you preset epics but not gear that matches personal preferences) and can continue to get higher, but as far as a cap goes, you'll have to experiment with the totems with different things. the ending formula will have a base on your total spell damage bonus though, still.
nijukyubi wrote:
ahh, i think i know what you're meaning... but aoe also doesn't work that way.
totems are no exception either, with more mobs comes more penalties, and i'm not entirely sure the formula but i bet the mage section has it figured out and it'd match you perfectly on the details, but basically after 10+ mobs, your spell damage is severely cut off and doesn't do max damage, every 10+ in addition to that severs it even more, i think it's something like 20% max (so 20 mobs you'd do uhh.. 64% -ish)
i will have to say that 500mana for 500 damage isn't too far off from blizzard, a frost mages main aoe used (if improved) (and to those about to correct me, i haven't forgotten arcane explosion or the fire ones, i'm just saying blizzard is the MOST used) which i think mine at rank 2? 3?... was 400-something damage and cost like 750 mana?
as for a damage cap, your ptr won't be the best you can get with all the gear that's coming out in Outlands (since they give you preset epics but not gear that matches personal preferences) and can continue to get higher, but as far as a cap goes, you'll have to experiment with the totems with different things. the ending formula will have a base on your total spell damage bonus though, still.
totems are no exception either, with more mobs comes more penalties, and i'm not entirely sure the formula but i bet the mage section has it figured out and it'd match you perfectly on the details, but basically after 10+ mobs, your spell damage is severely cut off and doesn't do max damage, every 10+ in addition to that severs it even more, i think it's something like 20% max (so 20 mobs you'd do uhh.. 64% -ish)
Quote:
Imagine an AoE spell that does 500 damage per target and costs 500 mana.
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
If this were a mage, this translates to a very expensive spell.
Now, if you had 50 mobs all snared from one way or another (Frost Mage grinding) and together in a clustered pack...
i will have to say that 500mana for 500 damage isn't too far off from blizzard, a frost mages main aoe used (if improved) (and to those about to correct me, i haven't forgotten arcane explosion or the fire ones, i'm just saying blizzard is the MOST used) which i think mine at rank 2? 3?... was 400-something damage and cost like 750 mana?
as for a damage cap, your ptr won't be the best you can get with all the gear that's coming out in Outlands (since they give you preset epics but not gear that matches personal preferences) and can continue to get higher, but as far as a cap goes, you'll have to experiment with the totems with different things. the ending formula will have a base on your total spell damage bonus though, still.
I try not to be a curt, low-patience person, but I really can't seem to be so on the shaman forums. I want your source of all this info. My main is a mage. I'm a regular on the mage section of the Allakhazam forums. I have Flamestrike, Blizzard, Dragon's Breath, Blast Wave, Arcane Explosion, Cone of Cold, and Frost Nova. I regularly run guildies through low-level instances and find myself using these AoEs in many situations. I've done testing for these things.
AoE Spell Damage Caps are not based on the number of mobs, they're based on the damage you do.
Let's say that you have two AoE spells that have an identical Damage Cap of 10000. One of these spells does a mean of 1000 damage to a mob, the other spell does a mean of 2000 damage.
This means that if you were to use the first spell on 9 enemies, it would do around 1000 damage on each one. If you were to use it on 11 enemies, because of the cap, it would do 909-910 damage exactly on each mob.
If you were to use the second spell on 4 enemies, it would do around 2000 damage on each one. If you were to use it on 9 enemies, however, it would do, once again, 909-910 damage exactly on each mob, because it's the damage cap of 10000 divided by the amount of enemies done. This division of damage is not how AoE works only if it doesn't hit the damage cap. With spell #1, you can hit 10 enemies without a reduction of damage. With spell #2, you can only hit 5 without a reduction of damage. However, the total amount of damage done is the same between the two spells when attacking more than five mobs at once because both have the AoE damage cap of 10000.
I'm really curious to where you got your information and how I could have been so horribly wrong after all this time.
my brain hurts... math is where i fail >.<
Raglu... you need to look around some more.. let me hook you up kk.
There ya go bud.
Quote:
All area effect damage effects will have 'area damage caps' in patch 2.2.0 which limit the number of targets which will be affected by any AoE effects. There are already spells, such as Arcane Explosion (AE), using these to a certain extent. In the case of AE, the damage decreases per mob, up until about 15 mobs being, at which point it holds at a certain amount of minimum damage.
There ya go bud.
DarkHybridX wrote:
Raglu... you need to look around some more.. let me hook you up kk.
There ya go bud.
Quote:
All area effect damage effects will have 'area damage caps' in patch 2.2.0 which limit the number of targets which will be affected by any AoE effects. There are already spells, such as Arcane Explosion (AE), using these to a certain extent. In the case of AE, the damage decreases per mob, up until about 15 mobs being, at which point it holds at a certain amount of minimum damage.
There ya go bud.
Raglu wrote:
If I hit nineteen enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 19 targets for a total of 9500 damage.
If I hit twenty enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 20 targets for a total of 10000 damage. This is the damage cap.
If I hit twenty-one enemies, I'd do 476-477 damage to 21 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
If I hit forty enemies, I'd do 250 damage to 40 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
If I hit twenty enemies, I'd do 500 damage to 20 targets for a total of 10000 damage. This is the damage cap.
If I hit twenty-one enemies, I'd do 476-477 damage to 21 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
If I hit forty enemies, I'd do 250 damage to 40 targets for a total of 10000 damage.
I knew and said that the damage on each mob gets decreased.
And I don't know about your 15 mobs thing.
I just tested Blast Wave again. The AoE Damage Cap, as I describe it and you guys disagree with, for Blast Wave is known and listed to be around 9440.
I went into RFC, in my +563 spell damage gear, in my "Low-Instance Grinding" spec, and did two test runs of Blast Wave.
The first time, I did all the troggs and stuff beforehand to hit 47 enemies at 200-201 damage each (crits do not count towards the cap, mind you), equaling a bit more than 9400 damage.
I went out, reset the instance, aggroed 26 of them (a number more than 15 mobs away from the previous figure), and did a Blast Wave doing ~363 damage on each mob. This equals 9438 damage.
This is the AoE Damage cap of Blast Wave, 9440. It follows the way I decribed.
I'm sorry for my impatience and for derailing the thread. For anyone who comes to the thread looking for this info, I'll post it again:
Raglu wrote:
The damage cap after three tests for the highest rank of Magma Totem is 1550~ per tick. The damage cap after six tests for the highest rank of Fire Nova Totem is 9980~.
Now, this isn't relevant to the AoE Cap, but it's more about Shaman AoE.
I found this video a level 62 shaman doing lots of AoE grinding using a Stoneclaw Totem followed by a 3-second Fire Nova totem. His spec was 51/2/0 at the time. I found it very interesting.
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.php?id=35478&stream=Google
I found this video a level 62 shaman doing lots of AoE grinding using a Stoneclaw Totem followed by a 3-second Fire Nova totem. His spec was 51/2/0 at the time. I found it very interesting.
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.php?id=35478&stream=Google
Raglu, a blue posted that 15-mob stuff, and as serious threroycrafters know, blue posters usually don't know what the hell they're talking about. Unfortunately, many people rely on blue posters for their information, hence why these (unfortunately) misinformed people keep telling you you're wrong, when you're actually right.
lsfreak wrote:
Raglu, a blue posted that 15-mob stuff, and as serious threroycrafters know, blue posters usually don't know what the hell they're talking about. Unfortunately, many people rely on blue posters for their information, hence why these (unfortunately) misinformed people keep telling you you're wrong, when you're actually right.
Hehe, thanks for the comfort...
...though aren't you blue too? ;P
Edited, Jan 9th 2008 11:47pm by Raglu
Wow... it never actually sunk in till now that I could be called a blue poster, "blue posters" have always been CM's to me. Huh... ;p
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