ShockadinsFollow

Umm…most Shockadins lack Sanctified Light, IBoW, have Healing Light not maxed out and also have ISoR. Huge differences imo. Their cores are the same but they can’t do what Healadins can. Hell some don’t even have SF not to mention that they have Sanctity Aura up instead of Concentration.

shockadins must be the new boomkin... err Oomkin.

Sorry, I don't seem to be following the thread of this argument very well. Could I ask for more specifics on what the differences are between a "shockadin" build and a "healadin" build? According to the FAQ, which matches how I've always thought of the two, a shockadin has essentially everything in the Holy tree that a healadin does, but has additional points in Holy to pick up some personal damage mitigation and spell damage output. Specifically, all four of the talents mentioned in Chood's post are maxed out in both of the two sample builds. (I'm using the Instance/Raid Healing build as my sample healadin)

This should mean that a shockadin would be as efficient as a healadin in healing - all the primary healing talents are in both. The differences are in where the off-healing talents lie - in protection, to become more survivable, in retribution to become more dangerous in melee, or in holy to increase spell damage.

Some clarification of these points would be very helpful for me. Thanks

I know when I was a shockadin, I had this build, and healed kara, it wasn`t hard in kara, and we only had 2 healers for everything up to and including nightbane. I know its not entirely PvP oriented, but it is damn close.


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0555300050012053105000000000000000000000000523020032030100000000

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 1:59pm by cmcculloch

There's also gear. The theoretical Shockadin will run around in a +1000 SpellDmg/Heal set while the Healadin will run around in a 700SpellDmg/1700Heal set. (Approximative numbers, obviously) As such, the Shockadin's heals will be significantly weaker which will drive him OoM that much faster.

1000 spell damage is still bunk though, if it was a mage, sp etc it wouldnt be too hateful, not great either. The thing is that any caster class that relies on spell damage gets much larger co-efficients than what a Pally is getting for HS, or judgements/seals.

I can still rock my holy build, and have a piece or two of gear sitting in my bags and easily go past 1000 damage for when I wish to solo out my daily quests. I still can do 3 times the healing of a Shockadin if I so wish.

Also comes back to the fact that Shockadin holds no place in a raid. In PvP the talents they choose tend to be questionable at best as Capjack pointed out, and Holy/Prot gives more survivability which in PvP is unequivocablly more important than anything.

So once again back to it. Holy can solo PvE just as well now, heals better in PvE, and is much more beneficial than Shockadin in PvP. So why would anyone want to play a low/medium dps class with mana issues and gimped surivivability/heals?

Yeah, but none of your spells get 100% of that. Consecration gets 76% of that over all, JSoR gets 74% I believe. HS gets about 43% of the spelldamage of that. Sure it's great, but it's still not accomplishing much.

The only argument I can see being the reason why someone wants to be a Shockadin is that they think it's fun. If that's the case then by all means go for it. No one can argue that it's not fun to someone who thinks it's fun. We all operate under different meanings of the word, and by golly you go out there and swing the light like nobody's beeswax.

Not really, as stated look at spell coefficients, look at cool downs, etc and it is actually just enough to get mediocre dps. If the best that you can hope is mediocre dps then good luck with that. Especially in light of some of the various disadvantages it has.

Like Cap said, if you are having fun great. I could say the same for Melee mages.

Major glaring flaws that stop it from being successful 10-58 and for anyone that goes further than 5 mans and 1500 rating in Arena.

Lots have been said, so I won't repeat it all. I'm a holy pally who likes to solo via the shockadin playstyle. For soloing, shockadin is great fun because you can aggro a bunch of mobs and let consecration go to work, while you keep yourself healed with ease. Consecration gets the most out of +spell damage, so in my shockadin gear, it does almost 200 per tick. However, the long cooldown on HS and Judgements kill any hope of out dpsing a mage/rouge or nuking a hybrid healer class who can heal themselves back to full health with less time and mana. Let's face it, shockadins are terrible for dpsing single targets compared to any dedicated dps class.

No offense, but much of this is silly and kinda just bashing alittle. Pallies give each other more **** than any other class I think. Holy pallies lawling at the ret pallies (maybe not so much any more) and shockadins (even though it's basically holy still).

My pvp gear is lamellar/ spell dmg set, almost to 1k dmg, but held back a bit in order to up mana pool and have a bit of regen. Currently like 945 spell dmg, 10.5k mana, 23mp5(hard to come by in pvp gear, and not sure it's worth it yet.. things like heal head chant for regen, 6mp5 to chest, vitality to boots), and 25% base crit.

Some decked out holy pally comes up and lawls at my set in whispers, blah blah.. i have alost as much spell dmg, etc.. Ya, that 1/3 healing to spell dmg hurt the viability, uniqueness, and suprise of a shockadin set. I posted a qq about it before patch went live actually. But oh well. I'm thinking of mixing the two sets now, get two pieces of vengeful ornamented set. A little ramble there^. So, i reply ya your 720 spell dmg is close, but not really. I mean that's a whole nice spell dmg mace and then some. Bhodi, no way can you out dps a 1k spell dmg set, that's a silly statement obviously. I realize the original post is a legitimate point/ question, but some pallies are obnoxious about it. Like the one I mentioned.

Right now i specced back to more supportive build, as having concentration up is vital most the time. Sure the extra 13% from going further down the ret tree is nice, but not sure it's worth it. Kings is a pretty nice buff too if no one else has it. Right now I'm specced 43/11/7 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVEuMxz0ektVGzZVb. Basic holy with imp SoR, lacking holy light 6% crit, but that's about all I'm missing from full holy tree heal spec. I have full t4 plus for raiding and such, which was nice to throw on as the before mentioned holy pally was giving me trouble. He said, aah there we go, and I hope he felt a bit silly. When I was specced 40/0/21 I topped 25 mans repeatedly in healing (guild farms gruul, mag, and through Lurker in SSC is all, recently void reaver too). I went through more pots I'm sure, love my alchemists stone :).

I think it would be really fun to roll ret for awhile, and when i get a full set i will have to for awhile. I thought it was silly to further take away their off heal capability with removing all spell dmg from pvp gear, but really never played ret much. When i get to run an instance dpsing (with people i know, cause most people are so stuck on traditional make ups they wouldn;t let me) i hold my own for sure. Ooming is the number one drawback, with lack of threat reduction a close second. The spec is for pvp, can work for pve but people gotta spew their forum quotes and all the crap we've heard forever, lack of cc blah blah. I offheal, can OT just fine (yeah heroics) in s2 pvp set (and beyond), and dps quite well really. It's frustrating dealing with listening to the same objections over and over, so I seldom try. I dont mind healing at all, that's pretty much what I do for PvE.

Still trying to get optimum arena teams together. It offers alot of burst dps. Like 3v3, currently myself, rogue, shadow priest.. We can burn a focused target in a hurry. We don't play enough to be great, hoping we will more.

I've always wanted to see/ take part in more shockadin threads. So, i apologize for this being long, and realize it's a bit scattered (lots of things to say). Constructive criticisms are always good to hear, reading these forums has brought me to understand pallies quite well imo. Being a shockadin isn't as unique as it was. It was really fun when the 1/3 heal bonus wasn't there. Roll up to someone in bg and as they're spamming their rofl macro at you, they shortly die. The element of suprise has been taken. I still kill almost every warrior without even healing 1v1, and almost always win vs hunters and mages. The rest are a wash, resto shammies and druids are a pain, but aren't they for everyone.

I agree with the original post that with the 1/3 heal bonus, the spell dmg pvp sets can seem silly, but it adds up, and throw in a few talents to support it and it makes for a quite versatile pvp toon. Wish i could do more dps, offheal, offtanking in heroics, but oh well. Fun when i can.

Anyway, heres to a shockadin thread. Hope you're not asleep.


here's how my full shockadin 40/0/21 was last http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVyuMxz0eoxZVfM0Gcz ya, it was fun to runz fast :)

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 9:44pm by Pallyhu

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 10:02pm by Pallyhu

Not entirely. Sure, they both focus on the holy tree primarily, but there are very different talents that if you were holy you wouldn't dream of tanking and vice-versa for a shockadin. Also, healadins use Prot as a subtree and shockadins generally use ret as a subtree.

Gear-wise, pre-2.3 a Shockadin had to focus on Spell Dmg/Healing, post-2.3 a healadin can have almost as much spell dmg as a shockadin. However, in terms of play-style, a Shockadin is primarily offensive, and a healadin is primarily defensive.

So, neither is really a subset of the other. They have somewhat similar talents, but they aren't the same thing.

He conceded the fun point.