ShockadinsFollow

You honestly have more healing as ret than as shockadin? That means you must way out-gear him. If a shockadin goes in with a healing set, he will outheal you. The shockadin spec allows the paladin to use a SHIELD while still doing damage, thus being much more survivable than your ret spec. And while 41/20 may have more survivability, it has a lot less damage. Not to mention a shockadin can actually control when damage goes off, rather than a ret pally who relies on luck.

Honestly, if you didnt have enough posts, I'd assume you were a troll. You come in here basically saying "Ret has more healing and spell damage than holy" which is like saying holy relies more on melee stats than ret...

I can pump equivalent (or greater) damage and have more spell damage than any Shockadin, as a Holy Paladin. Why? Because their is no gear to support the Shockadin build, and there is no room in a raid for one. Therefore my t5 healing gear has more spell damage than you could ever hope to accumulate using pvp epics, dungeon blues or anything else you could acquire outside of a PvE environment.

In PvP shockadin is a complete failure, they neither DPS or Heal well which makes them as useless as tits on a nun. In PvE they will always underperform a dedicated healer in group, and in terms of solo~ability a straight holy pally does just as well now thanks to the 1/3 spelldamage from +healing that was implemented a month or two ago, along with the changes in the ret tree. It isn't a viable leveling build either, at least not until 60+. Not when viewed against Ret or Prot.

Back in the day Shockadin was somewhat viable for those looking to solo and heal 5 man content with a little PvP on the side, mainly because Holy pally dps was so poor. With new changes that isn't really an issue and it leaves shockadins as a build that leaves the pally mediocre at everything, great at nothing which =fail.

Before they would be able to go down ret tree and pick up the old Imp Sotc, but now everyone gets that so that 15% increase is gone, healadins had no spell damage anyways, so a shockadin could at least justify it by saying "I might heal less, but at least I can solo that mob in under 2 minutes!".

That is gone now though. They heal less, they don't solo any better, they have less survivability. I just keep coming back to "They don't do anything better, and they do a number of things remarkably less well, why bother?"

Cheap enchants that do the same thing and don't cost talent points.

/shrug

Feel free to link your armory and we will talk. I'd truly like to see it.

I'd say don't start making claims for Shockadin arena viability unless you have a 2k+ rating, cause that's the only thing that's going to convince bodh, and rightly so. A trained monkey can win fights for a while, but it's the cream of the crop which gets into the higher brackets and Shockadins just don't have the gusto to make it there.

Not if it's healed up immediately after for a fraction of the mana that it took to cast. Plus, I don't believe in videos. Too much room for misinterpretation and propaganda.

Unless they buffed the runspeed enchants, they only do 8%. But since I haven't checked, they probably did buff em. But I was mostly joking.

I say mostly joking because it's the silly kind of thing I'd do.

3k crits my HL hits for 3500 non crit. Or a FoL crit crit for 2500 hundred will do the job.

Not to mention that you are relying on crit to get the 3k, in a world of resilience gear which dramatically reduces the viability of crit. Then you pop it off and and are left twiddling your thumbs for the 10 second holy shock cool or the 8 second judgement. So you get to rely on seals/melee which is a joke any which way you cut it, worse if you are near a class that can purge, consume it. Might as well be in a pillow fight, accept you are swinging goose down and the other guy has a sack full of bricks.





See the real big difference is that a Pally can stun, thats bout it. That mage can throw out massive spike damage and can also interrupt the healers cast, sheep em and keep pressure on. 3k damage spike is nothing when you have 10K+ health and 6 second stun can be easily trinketed out of, or even just sat through since a shockadin is probably only going to be hitting 350dps while waiting on cools. The next 8+ seconds you are on cool downs I am sitting pretty, I can put out 9K+ heals in that time. I will never get that luxury from a well played mage.

To come back the video it is easy to tell even with the grainy vid that he is hitting some undergeared guys for 3k. It is also easy to see the mana bar disappear and then the reliance on 180 white damage with the 200 yellow judgement which is a joke.

I'm not even hardcore into PvP, my focus is Raid healing. However I often do arena and Bg and Ret pallies and Shockadins make me smile. I can heal through their dps without even consuming 1/4 of my mana bar, then proceed to pick them apart since they are effectively useless while OOM. Which boils back to the fact that heals are much more pivotal in a battle that 'almosts compares' to undergeared compatriots in real dps classes.

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 12:40am by bodhisattva

I'm sorry but your dps doesn't compare to that of a shockadin...

They can easily have 1000 spell damage, and the best you can come up with is 773...c'mon give me a break. The only way for you to out dps them is by living longer with your added survivability and leet heals.


Out dps, no. Outshine, yes

It took me a bit but I think I understand your confusion. Healadins get holy shock as well, but it's utility as a healing spell is very limited. Sure, you can use it if you think they are going to die right then and there, but it's healing per mana is very very inefficient.

I use it while moving in some mobile fights to hit someone who is about to die but isn't important enough for me to stop to heal. And occasionally I'll use it on someone I saw a druid or priest cast a HoT on so I can make em overheal.

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 9:39am by Poldaran

Shockadins and healadins have a lot of the exact same talents in the holy tree, it's just gear and playstyle which sets them apart.