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2.3.2: Death of the Arena RogueFollow

#52 Dec 16 2007 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
You do realise that this chart doesn't mean much since there's all of 1 teams over 2200 in 5v5 atm?

Wait until it gets fleshed about before you use it in any argument, you'll look less silly.

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Rogues suck at some things, just like Druids suck at some things. Warlocks suck at something else, just like Warriors suck at something. Rock, scissor, paper. I thought people knew that by now. It's only been the mantra on these boards for, like, two years or so. With the slight change that Warlocks are no longer mushrooms in the equation.


Similar chart to the one you showed us here said that some class are just flat out better then others. It has been showing us this for 2 season. And I'm fairly certain that in a few months in S3, it'll say us the same thing again.

Since you're so fond of Roguecraft (which goes a long way to show just how out of touch you are with the current balance of the game) - It's rock paper scissor alright, where rocks beats everything and scissor is no longer invisible.

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And Tyrandor, I thought you knew that sucking doesn't depend on what class you're playing, but rather how well you play any class against an equal opponent. In fact, the more a class gets buffed in comparison to other classes, the more the player of said class can suck without it showing.


That's assuming the game is perfectly balanced. Which it isn't.

It's also totally unimportant, since this game isn't about fighting an equal opponent.

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It's fine that people want to play the Arena. Hell, I want to play the Arena, I'm just currently in the process of gearing up for it. It's not that I have a problem with the Arena, or with World PvP, or with the Battleground system, or with raiding. Heck, I'd like to do it all. I've got a problem with people who expect their class of choice to be the best at everything, even when they roll a new class. It's a paradox. All classes can't be the best at everything. It can't be done.


I'm not asking for it to be the best at everything. Nor am I even asking to be #1 in any category.

What I want to see is as much balance as possible. In a ideal world, the spread in every format would be extremely thin - we would not see 30% of top player in 2v2 being Druid and 0% Hunter. But rather several class being all within 1 or 2% of each other, with the lead class being at 13% and the 'worse' class at 7% or something.

And that's why the nerf angers me. Rogue is NOT a strong arena class. It is getting nerfed. How can this possibly help balance things out?

Nerf the strong class and/or buff the weak class... don't nerf the weak class and leave the strong class alone (or worse, buff them).

Edited, Dec 16th 2007 7:49pm by Tyrandor
#53 Dec 16 2007 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Theophany the Sly wrote:
1800 5v5 last season before pve scrubs tanked my team, as well as watching matches online.

You obviously suck at shaman.

There's no way for me to argue with logic like that. I'm just going to save myself some effort here and let you believe whatever makes you happy.

Theophany the Sly wrote:
Actually a shaman to drop wf and either drop a warrior or to heal is pretty much the biggest reason to bring an ele shaman;

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... "Come again?"

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resto shamans are best in 3v3 where they're not needed for damage and they're viable as a counter to rogues and hunters with poison cleansing totem.

Poison Cleansing Totem is nice, but hardly makes us a counter to Rogues and Hunters. If I had my choice of any healer in a 2v2 or 3v3, I'd still take a Priest or Druid first, a Pally second, and a Resto Shaman last. Other classes all bring something else to the table; we... really don't.

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 1:07am by Gaudion
#54 Dec 16 2007 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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1,875 posts
youd really take paladins, who get locked down to full holy hell by warlocks over a resto sham?

really?
#55 Dec 16 2007 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
mongoosexcore wrote:
youd really take paladins, who get locked down to full holy hell by warlocks over a resto sham?

really?


Shamans don't have any instant heals either, and Paladins can at least dispel some of the DoTs or Fear and bubble out of CoTongues/Fear themselves. Shaman are just screwed.

And no, Tremor Totem _really_ doesn't help.

Edited, Dec 17th 2007 2:08am by RPZip
#56 Dec 16 2007 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Shaman + Warrior has been known to do very well, but yeah, Shamans are just to easy to lock down to really be worth it in smaller arena formats.

That being said, they do work great in 5v5 and are part of the 2345 comp, which is widely regarded as the strongest comp out there.

Still, that doesn't mean they couldn't use some love in the smaller formats.
#57 Dec 16 2007 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,875 posts
meh i know what i rather have in 2v2 at least
#58 Dec 16 2007 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
I like Shaman in 2v2 because they do a good job of countering the powerhouse of that format (hi, Resto Druid plus ANYTHING ELSE) and Paladins are completely hosed there but they're by no means ideal. They're even weaker than Paladins are to the SPriest/Lock combo or Warlocks in general, although better against Priests. It's by no means clear-cut in favor of the Shaman.
#59 Dec 16 2007 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Shaman in 2v2 also get totally destroyed by Polymorph... but luckily for them, mage are also fairly rare (due to poor performance) in 2v2.
#60 Dec 16 2007 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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1,875 posts
i just like the idea (in 2v2) of bloodlust+cc for quick scrub-style burndowns... earth shield as a nice buffer if the opponents cant dispel it... searing totems helping against rogues tryin tricky ****


i like paladins for a lot of good reasons too, just the shaman outclasses it if not for purge as the main reason

nothing eats through a disc pri trying to **** me off like spam-purge while earth shield keeps us alive for those 5-10 seconds
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