2.3.2: Death of the Arena RogueFollow

Well...



Also;



The victim complex does not look so good on you.

Not quite. You might want to try playing/watching some high-rated 5v5 before you say stuff like that.

Shammies are one of the best counters to priests. Rargh.

So should you.


How exactly do you figure that? I hope you've got a better reasoning than, "Shaman can Purge."

purge for one, windfury last resort weapon, earth shock as a interrupt healing priests lack, better healing per mana ratio, the 'healing has spell dmg' helps resto shams more then healing priest, disc priests best weapons can all be purged (under ps itll just take a few trys)

i dont know about shadow, but resto sham vs healing pri any spec ill bet gold on the sham any day (equal skill equal gear)

o.O

The resto shaman strengths are Bloodlust, Earth Shocks, Earthbind, Purge, Windfury/Grounding and the ability to do decent damage. Their weaknesses are no useful friendly dispels (read as: Need to be able to remove either Magic or Curses), extreme vulnerability to dispel effects, no non-timered instant heals (Renew, PW:S, Lifebloom etc) therefore being easy to lockout and lack of CC or escape tools.

Priests get Mass Dispel, mana burn (which benefits from +DMG, which is a _huge_ boost), extremely potent defenses once a certain Resilience level is met, resistance to dispels (dispel resistance plus the huge number of stacking buffs they gain when under attack), fort/shadow prot for their group and a decent defensive or offensive CC, and a moderate ability to avoid lockouts via Renew, PW:S and CoH if specced that way. Their weaknesses are cloth (especially at lower resistance levels, but much less of an issue once the stacking -damage buffs from Resil start to apply), poor damage-dealing ability against non-mana using classes and a fairly long timer on their escape tool.

Priests win in every catergory except possibly Bloodlust, and in anything but a hard burn setup the Priest wins every time.

People care about what gets them the best gear. Right now, that's arena. Being at a disadvantage at arenas puts you at a disadvantage at everything else, which is why people whine about Arena.

Hello all, first post on the forums here (at least first I can remember), but I have a 70 MS warrior named Aresvas (formerly a tank... don't have enough time to raid regularly anymore, so I spec'd MS for ***** and grins.)
Mostly I was reading this thread cause I have a 70 frost mage friend (alliance side... /sigh) who wants me to 2v2, and was thinking of lvling a rogue to do it with, and was looking into builds and ran into the 2.3.2 destruction of HARP rogues, and this thread.

First, two replies:

MAZRA. Goodness... just... goodness. Turns out there's a focus in the game: new stuff with the best gear. Cause, they're new, something different to do, and we'd like to be able to do it, and get teh 1337 epix amirite? And I will QQ about how everyone got to 80 before me because warrior's suck at soloing in anything less than T5 fury gear. "Rogues are the sneakiest..." Isn't that what rogues do? Are you trying to say that because rogues are good at World PvP they SHOULD get rocked in arenas? That everyone should have to have 4 70s to Raid, World PvP, BG, and Arena? ***** that.

Second, I must respond to RPZip (when you quoted yourself). And I'm gonna bottom line here cause i'm WAY too long: warriors shouldn't be on your non-hybrid list, and most hybrid classes have all their specs viable in PvE and PvP, especially since 2.3.

As far as the HARP nerf goes, I've always thought shadow step was kinda cool, if only in idea and not in practice. IMO, spec sstep and wreck clothies for awhile, could be fun.
Also, I've been stun-locked to death by a rogue before, might wanna give that a try... Personally I'm kinda leaning towards a mutilate build to use with my frost mage partner: any suggestions on what that build should look like?

Just my 2cents... well... actually i prolly gave y'all like tree fitty, but whatcha gonna do?

<3 to all of those who read all of this, and my apologies; my understanding to those of you who did not (cause srsly, this thing is way too long).

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Hopefully I'll remember to check back in on this again >.< Sorry for the length, had a lot to say apparently :-\


*Edited for content, and to try to shorten it :( I promise to sleep before my next post >.<*

Edited, Dec 16th 2007 4:19am by Epitheron

I'm aware: again, my apologies on the length. :'-(

Defense is against crits, not crushing blows. Crushing immunity only comes from Shield Block unless the boss hits faster than like 5 hits per six seconds or something, I forget the numbers. Druids aren't crushing immune and neither are pallies (yet), which is why warriors are still MTs. Arena set isn't terribly high on dodge, but you could still def. do PvE DPS in pew pew kitty mode and PvP as feral (with the same spec, i might add). Plus it's loaded with agi. which = dodge (to an extent). But my point was; druid "hybrid" classes DON'T necesarrily have to have more than one set of gear to tank and PvP: but they don't have to have more than one spec. Warrior tanks (a non-hybrid class, supposedly), need a new spec, AND new gear, hence my issue with his grouping warriors into the "one gear set" category. (fyi, i <3 droods, don't nerf them)

Edited, Dec 16th 2007 3:08am by Epitheron

If you're stunned, there isn't anything you can do no matter what class you are. You don't block, parry or dodge while stunned so it's possible (and quite likely) to eat a Crushing Blow.

With that said, Paladins are better at avoiding Crushing Blows than Warriors are. Warriors can take four hits every ten seconds and still be CB immune; Paladins can take eight.



Split that up into this new invention we like to call 'paragraphs' so I could read it. The problem isn't the post length, it's that you don't separate anything so we get eyestrain just glancing at it.

Warriors are somewhat unique in the context of this discussion because while we're a hybrid in terms of PvE we're not in PvP, since... tanking doesn't work. Skimming the rest of the post, I didn't say they were any more _accurate_, only that's where the breakdown in communication seems to come from. It really doesn't matter to me if Paladins could go PvP with all three specs or only with one, it does matter to them.

And bank space? Really? I've got enough space to still have full Tier 2, my partial Tier 2.5 and Tier 3, a ton of weapons and misc. items from MC->Naxx, Tier 4 and 5 as well as off-spec pieces from those instances, every melee weapon from Tier 4 instances and most of Tier 5 (only missing the Rod of the Sun King since we've never had one drop anyway), even some outdated Tier 6 equivalent stuff, a full Nature, Frost, Shadow resist set, tanking gear, a huge stockpile of tokens and such and I still have slots to throw BoE stuff that I could ship to my alt. It's really not a big deal.

Hehe, yeah I got sick of the constant buff this nerf that crap with rogues. The $700 in proceeds from selling my account bought me a new 40" Samsung 1080p LCD and CoD4. Kinda sucks to see rogues nerfed again though.... hopefully they wont nerf my M16... :)

I never had more fun on my rogue then when I was playing mute. If it wasn't for raiding, I would have stayed mute forever. The rapid CP generation and big numbers just made it worth it! Was a great jack of all trades built too!

I guess my post could be boiled down to: STFU and l2p. I just thought I'd blow some extra letters on it.

It's fine that people want to play the Arena. Hell, I want to play the Arena, I'm just currently in the process of gearing up for it. It's not that I have a problem with the Arena, or with World PvP, or with the Battleground system, or with raiding. Heck, I'd like to do it all. I've got a problem with people who expect their class of choice to be the best at everything, even when they roll a new class. It's a paradox. All classes can't be the best at everything. It can't be done.

Rogues suck at some things, just like Druids suck at some things. Warlocks suck at something else, just like Warriors suck at something. Rock, scissor, paper. I thought people knew that by now. It's only been the mantra on these boards for, like, two years or so. With the slight change that Warlocks are no longer mushrooms in the equation.

Clicky me.

You even beat Hunters. Unless they nerf you drastically, like, removing your arms or something, you'll still have a chance at getting the phat lewt.

And Tyrandor, I thought you knew that sucking doesn't depend on what class you're playing, but rather how well you play any class against an equal opponent. In fact, the more a class gets buffed in comparison to other classes, the more the player of said class can suck without it showing.

It's an old Chinese proverb, I think.