2.3.2: Death of the Arena RogueFollow

Disclaimer: This is a QQ thread. While I do believe my QQ is justified and I can actually reason it, it's still QQing. The patch hasn't been release yet, maybe blizzard will get their head out of their *** and give us some decent buff. It's also full of guesses and assumptions - I hope to Bob I'm wrong!

2.3.2 Heralds the death of the Arena Rogue.

Shadowstep in its current incarnation is weaker then the old catch-all 1X/4X combat build. Ironically enough, the buff to it don't make up for the nerf to Hemo, so it will still be weaker next patch.

So essentially, we're back to 2.2. Same old song... and we all know the lyrics to that one, Rogues placing 5th out of 9 in 2v2, 3rd out 9 in 3v3 and seventh out of 9 in 5v5, the one bracket Blizzard claims to be balanced.

Except not really. In 2.2, Hunter's didn't have dispels or MS. Mage didn't have Icy Veins. Druid couldn't shift from Bear to Bear. Priest didn't have Pain Suppersion. Etc

Yes, some class didn't get buffed (warriors come to mind - the talent swapping truly didn't amount to much for them), but those classes were usually doing much better then we were in 2.2, so one can't really imagine them doing worse then us now. Maybe worse then they used to, but not worse then us.

The simple truth: Rogue is a 'mid tier' class. The fact that we do so poorly in the 'real bracket', the one that gives the most point, yank us down more toward 'low-mid tier'. Balancing needs to be made to our classes and the others to even out the spread - the fact that last patch saw so many buff to so many class seems to imply Blizzard understand that.

However, it's obvious Blizzard is happy with our position, because they do not want to buff us, after mistakenly doing so, they're nerfing us back. Blizzard might be happy with rogue being low-mid Tier, but I'm not.

I can only see us going down in ranking, especially since the one 5v5 Comp where we were any good is now effectively countered by Pain Suppression.

So how many time does one need to smash his head against a brick wall to get a clue? Well, I'm too stubborn and stupid to not give ShS a try. To not try 1x/4x combat a try and see if I can still do something good.

But I regret wasting so much time on my rogue. Any other class I would have decided to play would be 70 and pretty well geared by any account had I played it instead. I'm happy I have a level 70 mages - A class that's doing better then Rogues in 5v5 and is getting buffed next patch (gg logic, seriously).

They do all they can in the name of "Balance" but the fact is, the more people complain about the lack of balance the more they are going to "Buff/Nerf" classes.

Id much rather just stay where I am at instead of taking a whack from a Nerf Bat in the near future.

You know you're the Rogue version of Quor, right Tyr?

Take that as you will.

The difference between me and Quor is that I actually have data that backs my claim, while he goes with his gut feelings.

Quor doesn't feel that Warriors are powerful enough, regardless of them being the all around best performing class in Arena.

I don't feel that rogue are powerful enough, and they are overall performing poorly in arena.

It's a subtle difference, I know.

People can say rogues are fine all they want, they can say people unhappy with the rogue situation are whiny ******** But the fact remains - Rogues are lower to mid Tier in Arena play. Saying it isn't so, sadly doesn't change that reality.

Edit: fixed double negative ;p

Edited, Dec 14th 2007 3:14pm by Tyrandor

They already did Dilbert.

Now it also grant a short burst of speed.

No talk of Warrior's tree being turned on it's head with Endless Rage being a must have thought, right?

thats lawls.



no (that double negative is brutal, but i know what you mean). thats not how i feel, and if ive come across that way im sorry. how i feel about warriors is that theyre not the armor-clad harbingers of doom many think them to be. behind every successful warrior is a person or group of people acting in concert with intricate timing and grace. theres this belief that the life of a warrior in arena consists of spamstring with an MS every 6s and then execute spam when they get under 20%. thats all warriors need to do, or so the belief goes, and therefore countless numbers of people dont see the subtleties present.

i think warriors are totally fine in arena. id like our 41-pt arms talent to be worth more than 3/3 defiance in terms of pve and pvp usage, but i cant complain about our performance in any aspect of the game. what i take umbrage at is this prevailing belief that warriors are some kind of magical easy mode. it belittles the work warriors put into playing their game, and it belittles the contribution of the other classes that support warriors.

Edited, Dec 14th 2007 12:05pm by Quor

You really don't do anything in a different way. You're basically mirror images, just arguing with each other from the opposite viewpoint.

Just find it vaguely amusing is all. Carry on.

Yeah, they nerfed your Rage generation. Then they reverted it right back.

I guess it remains to be seen if Warriors will get the same kind of 'attention' (i.e Get fucked up the ***) we are getting in order for their 41 points talent to be viable, or if they'll remain untouched.

My money is on the later, I'll honestly be speechless if Blizzard finally realise that maybe they're a bit overboard.



Yeah, we're exactly the same

I might be crying wolf here... but honestly, can anyone disagree that this isn't a huge nerf? Can anyone disagree that rogues aren't anywhere near top dog in arena? And if you agree with both, how can agree that the nerf was warranted?







Edited, Dec 14th 2007 5:43pm by Tyrandor

Yeah... after three months (first week of December to first week of March) and they've never reverted it. My Rage generation in full BT/Hyjal gear is worse than it was in MC/BWL-era gear, much less Naxx or AQ40 gear. For comparison purposes, they nerfed a spec that's been on Live for about a month (and the nerf went into the PTR about two weeks after the patch went live).



Heh. It's something that struck me when you made the original comment, and it came out in force here. Just because you don't want to admit it doesn't make it false!

ya tyr, we know. its good to vent, and i enjoy my arguments with you, even if we're just two sides of the same coin about a lot of stuff.

on a somewhat related note, i saw an interesting suggestion on the Oboards regarding AR/prep specifically. the idea was to apply a hypothermia-style debuff to the rogue after using AR, to prevent AR/prepping in quick succession, but still allow AR to be refreshed via prep. seemed like a neat idea to me.

That'd be just fine.

Rarely use them back to back anyway, you always end up being CC'd.

To be honest, I'm hoping this new ShS work out... that'd allow me to go sword, and thus go combat sword for pve (and kick ***) since it doesn't matter what you use for ShS.

That being said, I hope it works out... but I just don't see it working out at all.

Edited, Dec 14th 2007 10:44pm by Tyrandor

i was thinking "Crashing....the Downward Spiral" for the emogues out there, or "SUGAR HIGH WEAring off...." for the kids. or perhaps "I don't need no stinkin' insulin!" for the diabetics.

I fail to see the problem.

Fifth out of nine in 2v2 may mean you're worse than four classes, but you're also better than four classes.

Third out of nine in 3v3 is better than bad. It's good.

5v5 can go off itself.

So... you have a problem with your class because it's not the best in everything? And... you don't feel ridiculous about that at all? I'm sorry, but until Shaman stop being free HK's for anyone who wants it, I just don't have any sympathy to spare for you.