OK after perusing numerous potential builds suggested by others I notice that not one of them includes Brambles. I am assuming no one uses them since "thorns" are pretty weak and don't add up for much when you are in the thick of battle. I have maxed out the ability and I think I do something like 18 - 22 damage every time someone hits me. This isnt a big deal on its own but when I am in a group and I give it to everyone does it not make the talent a bit more usefull? I am currently looking in to a respec and I can obviously see that I would far rather some higher end talents and would likely scrub brambles.
What are peoples thoughts?
Is it a wasted talent?
I do as much PVP on my regular server as I can but battles are few and far between and if anyone can point out the ups and downs of when this talent is usefull or not would be appreciated.
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I don't think Brambles is too bad. But as you said it really doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Those 3 points could be better spent elsewhere.
You are right that casting thorns on every member of your group would add up to a pretty significant amount of damage by the end of the instance. BUT it would only do damage when the group member was hit. And good groups "should" only have 1-2 people who are taking damage in any given fight. So less than half of your group would benefit from the bramble damgae increase. AND I'm pretty sure that the threat created from thorns is assigned to the person with the buff. If I'm correct it would be unwise to put this buff on anyone other than the tank/off-tank.
So in the end, thorns/brambles would be great for buffing tanks in groups or for your own use in solo play. But probably not the best use of precious talent points.
You are right that casting thorns on every member of your group would add up to a pretty significant amount of damage by the end of the instance. BUT it would only do damage when the group member was hit. And good groups "should" only have 1-2 people who are taking damage in any given fight. So less than half of your group would benefit from the bramble damgae increase. AND I'm pretty sure that the threat created from thorns is assigned to the person with the buff. If I'm correct it would be unwise to put this buff on anyone other than the tank/off-tank.
So in the end, thorns/brambles would be great for buffing tanks in groups or for your own use in solo play. But probably not the best use of precious talent points.
Quote:
AND I'm pretty sure that the threat created from thorns is assigned to the person with the buff. If I'm correct it would be unwise to put this buff on anyone other than the tank/off-tank.
Very correct, yes.
Unless you're going for a pure PvE raid build, I would advise against taking Brambles. I kinda forgot the damage boost on Roots but since it breaks easily I don't think it's worth it as well. (Otherwise you could use it as an added DoT in PvP)
18.75 damage per hit is gained from brambles. If the tank is hit every 2 seconds, that's a 9.875 DPS increase. Assuming the raid wants 500 DPS, you aint missing out on a lot if you skip it. However, if you have the talent points to spare, an extra 10ish DPS isn't anything to really complain about - especially since it's extra TPS (10 for pallies, 14 for warriors/druids) and if you need 5 tanks for a fight, that could be 50 DPS there.
Also consider that the better geared a group is, the less effective this will be, for a few reasons:
1. The damage doesn't scale. With 0 spell damage or with 1200 spell damage, you'd still get 18.75 damage extra if you use brambles. Therefore in BT/Hyjal, you get less relative bonus than in kara/heroics.
2. When an attack is parried/dodged/missed thorns does not activate. So on warriors with 30% avoidance you'll see 13 average damage per enemy swing (since only 70% hit), and on a warrior with 50% avoidance you'll see an average of 10 damage per swing. On a mitigation tank this would be better, however (i.e. druid).
Note that these numbers are from the bonus effect of brambles, and do not include the base effect of thorns. Thorns should always be up on a tank, because what's the alternative?
Also consider that the better geared a group is, the less effective this will be, for a few reasons:
1. The damage doesn't scale. With 0 spell damage or with 1200 spell damage, you'd still get 18.75 damage extra if you use brambles. Therefore in BT/Hyjal, you get less relative bonus than in kara/heroics.
2. When an attack is parried/dodged/missed thorns does not activate. So on warriors with 30% avoidance you'll see 13 average damage per enemy swing (since only 70% hit), and on a warrior with 50% avoidance you'll see an average of 10 damage per swing. On a mitigation tank this would be better, however (i.e. druid).
Note that these numbers are from the bonus effect of brambles, and do not include the base effect of thorns. Thorns should always be up on a tank, because what's the alternative?
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