i've come across an interesting thought with some weird gears i've spotted such as the crowd pummeler from gnomeregan, 'adds 500 haste for X seconds' to me, that's quite lovely, increased number of hits = more wf procs = much more dps. so i got to looking and found ALOT... and i mean alot of haste gear that works on separate counters/buffs so I'm thinking 'if they can stack, then this would be absolutely godly in pve/raids' anyway, wanted some opinions on if a 'chain gun shammy' would be freezable for that... or if it's more of a just for fun thing to see yourself hitting 6 times a second (white damage) with wf procs.
anyway, here's the gear i found:
mainhand: Dragonstrike http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?source=live;witem=28439
off hand: Blackout Truncheon http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=27901&locale=enUS;source=live
metagem: Thundering Skyfire Diamond
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=32410
Trinket 1: Dragonspine Trophy
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28830;source=live
Trinket 2: Kiss of the spider
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?source=live;witem=22954
both weapons will be enchanted with battlemaster enchants (roughly 15% chance to heal all within a 8-10 yrd range for 120 with every melee hit, does not stack with +healing) and temp enchanted with *drumroll*... what? windfury, duh. also not entirely sure but having a windfury totem down would increase the chances even more of getting another hit or would it override/beignored with the wf buffs on the weapon already? (i think it would be ignored?)
i know kiss of the spider trinket is only lvl 60 and for pvp, the insignias would be a better choice, as well as the biggest most badass looking 2h mace/axe out there, but for chain gun chaos i found this to be one of the only ones i could find.
total haste of items if all were to proc at once and not overide one another:
Dragonstrike 212 for 10 seconds (roughly 5% proc)
Blackout Truncheon 132 for 10 seconds (roughly 5% proc)
Dragonspine Trophy 325 for 10 seconds (roughly 15% proc)
Kiss of the spider 200 for 15 seconds (active, 2min CD)
Thundering skyfire diamond 245 for 05 seconds (roughly 5% proc)
keep in mind there's still flurry (30% speed increase for 3 hits after every crit, which will be goig off like mad), drums of battle (+60 melee/range/spell haste) and bloodthirst (another 30% melee/range/spell haste)
putting it alltogether would crash the server?
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- chain gun shammy
chain gun shammyFollow
Except windfury has an internal cooldown. So even though you're hitting a lot faster, you're still not going to get windfury to proc anymore often than the cooldown will let it, no?
8 posts
Yep, windfury would probably almost never go off since you'd be hitting so many times within three seconds it would keep refreshing the internal cooldown. Ideally, windfury applies two extra attacks with bonus AP every three seconds, so you would need to boost your attack speed to a rate that adds more than two attacks every three seconds. You might as well use a different weapon enchant to help make up the difference. Whether or not your increased attack speed will completly make up for no WF I don't know, but if you want to try it, I say go for it. I think it has potential. Just a matter of acquiring the items...
i was thinking about the wf cool down as well, but don't think it would refresh every time, i think it would just go off every 3 seconds or close to it, and considered using the other weapon buffs that have no internal cool down, instead of never going off (i don't think cool downs can lengthen O-o;a?) the problem with using the other other weapon buffs though aren't the added dps, it's the CoH for the battlemaster enchants on both weapons (Coh heal all friendlies around you in an 8-10 yard range for 120-ish, 15% when melee striking) if it was pure dps though yes, I'd probably switch to a different buff.
The answers I'm looking for are still of my first question. ( would this build be feezable for raid/pve) as a dps shammy or should I just be like every other (bleh) shammy, get a 2h and lots of str/agi/ap for dps instead?
with battlemaster enchants i would think a dw haste shammy would be perfect, the dps would just chinese-cut the top of the charts, and a 2nd healer up close (would be even more potent if another class also dw battlemaster enchants) would help to save mana for the MH and 2ndH, instead of a 2h slow weapon with higher crit.
Edited, Dec 12th 2007 3:44pm by nijukyubi
The answers I'm looking for are still of my first question. ( would this build be feezable for raid/pve) as a dps shammy or should I just be like every other (bleh) shammy, get a 2h and lots of str/agi/ap for dps instead?
with battlemaster enchants i would think a dw haste shammy would be perfect, the dps would just chinese-cut the top of the charts, and a 2nd healer up close (would be even more potent if another class also dw battlemaster enchants) would help to save mana for the MH and 2ndH, instead of a 2h slow weapon with higher crit.
Edited, Dec 12th 2007 3:44pm by nijukyubi
Who uses 2h for PvE?
Eccoes wrote:
Yep, windfury would probably almost never go off since you'd be hitting so many times within three seconds it would keep refreshing the internal cooldown. Ideally, windfury applies two extra attacks with bonus AP every three seconds, so you would need to boost your attack speed to a rate that adds more than two attacks every three seconds. You might as well use a different weapon enchant to help make up the difference. Whether or not your increased attack speed will completly make up for no WF I don't know, but if you want to try it, I say go for it. I think it has potential. Just a matter of acquiring the items...
You're misunderstanding how windfury works. You can't ever have no WF, it just can't go off more than once in 3 seconds. Your regular swings have nothing to do with the WF cooldown, the proc is what starts the cooldown. You can swing one million times a second, and WF will still proc, although not more than once in 3 seconds
i still get no answer to my post. thanks guys =/ huge help.
i know how windfury works regardless of the other people on these forums who don't. i know about the 3 second cooldown, WINDFURY is NOT what i'm concerned about here.
it's the battlemaster enchants and dps i'm interested in. will the dps and CoH aoe healing be good for my haste build or should i just stick with 2h and dps build like every other shaman for pve/raids?
ps- if i see one more windfury comment/formula/info and it's 3 seconds delay, i'm deleting it, end of story.
i know how windfury works regardless of the other people on these forums who don't. i know about the 3 second cooldown, WINDFURY is NOT what i'm concerned about here.
it's the battlemaster enchants and dps i'm interested in. will the dps and CoH aoe healing be good for my haste build or should i just stick with 2h and dps build like every other shaman for pve/raids?
ps- if i see one more windfury comment/formula/info and it's 3 seconds delay, i'm deleting it, end of story.
i still get no answer to my post. thanks guys =/ huge help.
i know how windfury works regardless of the other people on these forums who don't. i know about the 3 second cooldown, WINDFURY is NOT what i'm concerned about here.
it's the battlemaster enchants and dps i'm interested in. will the dps and CoH aoe healing be good for my haste build or should i just stick with 2h and dps build like every other shaman for pve/raids?
i know how windfury works regardless of the other people on these forums who don't. i know about the 3 second cooldown, WINDFURY is NOT what i'm concerned about here.
it's the battlemaster enchants and dps i'm interested in. will the dps and CoH aoe healing be good for my haste build or should i just stick with 2h and dps build like every other shaman for pve/raids?
#9REDACTED,
Posted: Dec 14 2007 at 2:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i still get no answer to my post. thanks guys =/ huge help.
for a person who has over 1000 posts, you're response is pretty dull-witted. warriors, druid, shaman all use 2h for meleeing simply due to the fact the dps is higher while using them, get that with a wf and a crit or two and your damage is nearing the top of the charts if you're crit geared (yes i know, crit gear just increases chance to crit, but that ---> increases both damage and threat... wtfg)
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
nijukyubi wrote:
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
Um, if melee dps isn't using a sheild, won't it be 100% 2-h or DW?
Think about the threat a haste happy crit monkey aoe healing every few hits. I feel bad for your repair bill and your Mt for having to worry about that.
Quote:
or a person who has over 1000 posts, you're response is pretty dull-witted. warriors, druid, shaman all use 2h for meleeing simply due to the fact the dps is higher while using them, get that with a wf and a crit or two and your damage is nearing the top of the charts if you're crit geared (yes i know, crit gear just increases chance to crit, but that ---> increases both damage and threat... wtfg)
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
Most people will use DW and now 2h in raids because it is a steadier form of dps. If you use a 2h, especially with windfury, then you are much more prone to aggro spikes which WILL get you killed very quickly.
Enhancement shamans spend most of their time hovering around the top of the treat meter right under the tank so a hard aggro spike will most likely result in them anhking.
This is incredibly NOT viable for 2 main reasons.
1. WF Scaling. WF scales better with slower weapons, the slower the weapons you are dual wileding, the better. WF, while proccing more often, will pull some really low numbers.
2. Threat. Battlemaster is THE WORST enchant a Shaman can get. The heal it gives means nothing since it does not scale and you can't drop the heaps of aggro it will pile on. This leads to being killed more often and consequently less DPS.
This sorta of build would be viable if WF had no internal cooldown. Slow weapons are fine in PvE and deal out the best DPS, with Flurry up I'm swinging my big, bad Merciless axes at 2.0 seconds, 1.96 with my Mongoose up. I see PLENTY of WF procs even with weapons with a base of 2.6 speed.
1. WF Scaling. WF scales better with slower weapons, the slower the weapons you are dual wileding, the better. WF, while proccing more often, will pull some really low numbers.
2. Threat. Battlemaster is THE WORST enchant a Shaman can get. The heal it gives means nothing since it does not scale and you can't drop the heaps of aggro it will pile on. This leads to being killed more often and consequently less DPS.
This sorta of build would be viable if WF had no internal cooldown. Slow weapons are fine in PvE and deal out the best DPS, with Flurry up I'm swinging my big, bad Merciless axes at 2.0 seconds, 1.96 with my Mongoose up. I see PLENTY of WF procs even with weapons with a base of 2.6 speed.
nijukyubi wrote:
for a person who has over 1000 posts, you're response is pretty dull-witted. warriors, druid, shaman all use 2h for meleeing simply due to the fact the dps is higher while using them, get that with a wf and a crit or two and your damage is nearing the top of the charts if you're crit geared (yes i know, crit gear just increases chance to crit, but that ---> increases both damage and threat... wtfg)
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
any melee dps that isn't using a shield will 80% of the time use a 2h something or DW.
Wrong.
2H is the worst way a Shaman can go for raids. It severely gimps our DPS and allows us to succumb toa ggro spikes.
I did my share of PvE AND PvP with a 2H and the day I picked up my Merciless and Gladiator's axes I noticed a huge difference. Sure you may get those huge numbers with a 2H, but they don't happen enough to make it viable. One little Dodge or Parry will completely ruin that crit streak or WF opportunity you have. If you do see the big numbers, big aggro and a big repair bill will likely come with it. I top the DPS charts in my Kara raid unless if the epics-out-the-*** Warrior decked out in full S3 decides to come along. I out-DPS Hunters, Mages, and I had a convinient 600k gap between me and the rogue in our 4 hour run of Kara tonight. Trust me, I have facts, I have experience, what I bring to the table holds much more weight in this argument than your pure speculation.
There is a HUGE difference between posting your opinion and blatantly misinforming people.
I used a 2h Mace\Axe a lot while leveling PvE. As I am now Elemental I use Dagger\Shield but when I was Enhancement it just fit my play style. Smartest for groups? Not a chance. The 3k dmg drop a WF Triple crit will almost certainly pull aggro off of your MT.
I used my 2h when solo (I played most of the game solo) and enjoyed every minute of it. I just feel it completely fits my play style. Play styles change from person to person so most of you might not agree.
For the record, I'm a firm believer of:
PvE: DW
PvP: 2h
Unless you are solo and wanna see some big WF crits :)
I used my 2h when solo (I played most of the game solo) and enjoyed every minute of it. I just feel it completely fits my play style. Play styles change from person to person so most of you might not agree.
For the record, I'm a firm believer of:
PvE: DW
PvP: 2h
Unless you are solo and wanna see some big WF crits :)
TheYardstick wrote:
1. WF Scaling. WF scales better with slower weapons, the slower the weapons you are dual wileding, the better. WF, while proccing more often, will pull some really low numbers.
I think I understand what the OP was talking about, and this above statement doesn't apply in his case. He is not outright using the fastest weapons possible, what he's doing is taking his 2.7 speed mace and making it faster.
It's easy to fall into the line of thinking that faster = weaker base damage, but that's talking about weapon itemization. When looking at weapons of equal DPS, slower weapons do more base damage per swing, and faster weapons do less. But once you choose that slow weapon with more base damage, using Haste rating to speed it up does NOT lower the base damage for Windfury to work off of.
If you were to take your Chain Gun Shammy and do this, you would use Windfury on the Mainhand and either Flametongue or Frostbrand on the Offhand. Flametongue, because it receives a bonus from +Spell Damage, is better on fast offhands like yours.
TheYardstick wrote:
2. Threat. Battlemaster is THE WORST enchant a Shaman can get. The heal it gives means nothing since it does not scale and you can't drop the heaps of aggro it will pile on. This leads to being killed more often and consequently less DPS.
While I wouldn't say that it is THE worst enchant for an enhancement shaman, this is very true that it compounds the aggro problem of enhancement shamans. This chain-gun shaman, if you go through with it, should be tested in how well it works in solo environments for a while so that you get a real feel of how damaging it is, before you bring it to a group/raid. It would be a huge burst aggroer.
Quote:
also not entirely sure but having a windfury totem down would increase the chances even more of getting another hit or would it override/beignored with the wf buffs on the weapon already? (i think it would be ignored?)
It would be ignored. Windfury Totem puts a buff on weapons, and your weapon already has the self-Windfury on it.
If you have the gold and patience, try to make the chain-gun shaman. Tell us the juicy details.
Raglu wrote:
TheYardstick wrote:
1. WF Scaling. WF scales better with slower weapons, the slower the weapons you are dual wileding, the better. WF, while proccing more often, will pull some really low numbers.
I think I understand what the OP was talking about, and this above statement doesn't apply in his case. He is not outright using the fastest weapons possible, what he's doing is taking his 2.7 speed mace and making it faster.
It's easy to fall into the line of thinking that faster = weaker base damage, but that's talking about weapon itemization. When looking at weapons of equal DPS, slower weapons do more base damage per swing, and faster weapons do less. But once you choose that slow weapon with more base damage, using Haste rating to speed it up does NOT lower the base damage for Windfury to work off of.
If you were to take your Chain Gun Shammy and do this, you would use Windfury on the Mainhand and either Flametongue or Frostbrand on the Offhand. Flametongue, because it receives a bonus from +Spell Damage, is better on fast offhands like yours.
Look at his OH, it is WAY too fast. It will steal the majority of his WF procs from his MH and cause a DPS defecit. What I said did apply, WF does not scale well with a slow/fast combo. It inherently has a lower base damage. Let me set up a scenario.
MH=3.0 speed 150-300
OH=1.5 speed 75-150 (Now multiply by .5 and you have the DW penalty)
WF hits on MH~around 600 before AP, armor penetration, and damage mitigation.
WF hits on OH~around 150 before AP, armor penetration, and damage mitigation.
The OH will proc WF more times and those procs will hit for 4x less than the main hand. In my experience, and through the knowledge of theorycrafters, this results in a HUGE DPS defecit when compared to a Shaman that goes with two slow weapons.
Raglu wrote:
If you were to take your Chain Gun Shammy and do this, you would use Windfury on the Mainhand and either Flametongue or Frostbrand on the Offhand. Flametongue, because it receives a bonus from +Spell Damage, is better on fast offhands like yours.
Maybe I should have made this part more prominent, I was saying that WF/WF was not viable because of the fast offhand as well. I treated your statement as a blanket statement for all enhancement shaman to be using WF/WF rather than as objectively as I should have. I apologize for that, I too understood that the offhand was way too fast. I believe we had here was failure to communicate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AShBoF1FPSE&feature=related
The OP's shaman, if it's going to use that offhand, should have FT on it. It is indeed too fast to be good with WF.
Raglu wrote:
Raglu wrote:
If you were to take your Chain Gun Shammy and do this, you would use Windfury on the Mainhand and either Flametongue or Frostbrand on the Offhand. Flametongue, because it receives a bonus from +Spell Damage, is better on fast offhands like yours.
Maybe I should have made this part more prominent, I was saying that WF/WF was not viable because of the fast offhand as well. I treated your statement as a blanket statement for all enhancement shaman to be using WF/WF rather than as objectively as I should have. I apologize for that, I too understood that the offhand was way too fast. I believe we had here was failure to communicate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AShBoF1FPSE&feature=related
The OP's shaman, if it's going to use that offhand, should have FT on it. It is indeed too fast to be good with WF.
Yet, it will still lag behind a WF/WF Shaman.
WF was designed to be the king of Enhance weapon imbues. The devs have said so themselves. 2 slow weapons with WF imbued on will beat out slow/fast no matter what imbues slow/fast is using.
The Blackout Truncheon is pretty much the only one-hand (as opposed to main-hand) weapon which has an "Increases haste rating" effect after searching Allakhazam and Thottbot, so this is what we'd have to work off of.
Recent Visitors: 101
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (101)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- chain gun shammy
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC